Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Arklight

In another couldn't-make-it-up moment, Brexit campaigners huff and puff over to Brussels to deliver a basket of goods meant to demonstrate the dominance of British manufacturing, made by companies that either aren't British or don't want Brexit:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-hamper-british-food-products-eu-brussels-michel-barnier-marmite-pg-tips-hendricks-gin-a8152006.html


I think there should be another referendum but the question should just be:


"Would you prefer to live in 1952? Yes / No"

phillw

GreatApe wrote: »

We have a better standard of living than poor countries because we have better governance and institutions and because we entered the electricity age sooner.

Our government is just as corrupt, but our legal system is strong. Ironically it has been much stronger in recent years due to the EU, the euro sceptics want the EU courts out of our legal system for a reason. It's not that they hate foreigners, it's that they hate foreigners stopping them from exploiting the UK population.

GreatApe wrote: »

As for UK wealth most of it is buildings homes shops offices in the UK.None of which we stole and bought over from India etc

Those are things that we put a value on, we got the materials and the money to buy a load of those things by stealing. The whole idea of "fair trade" goods only came about because we were exploiting the poor countries of the world.

52% of the country want to exploit the rest of the world for their own gain. Troubling times we live in. Delusion probably means the 52% don't accept that they actually want to exploit anyone, but their actions speak for them.

I know you'll come back with some namby pamby rubbish about how I'm being too cynical, but I've been through similar experiences on a smaller scale obviously with very similar people to the major players in brexit. A lot of leavers will be upset when what they wanted is delivered.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

Our government is just as corrupt, but our legal system is strong. Ironically it has been much stronger in recent years due to the EU, the euro sceptics want the EU courts out of our legal system for a reason. It's not that they hate foreigners, it's that they hate foreigners stopping them from exploiting the UK population.



Those are things that we put a value on, we got the materials and the money to buy a load of those things by stealing. The whole idea of "fair trade" goods only came about because we were exploiting the poor countries of the world.

52% of the country want to exploit the rest of the world for their own gain. Troubling times we live in. Delusion probably means the 52% don't accept that they actually want to exploit anyone, but their actions speak for them.

I know you'll come back with some namby pamby rubbish about how I'm being too cynical, but I've been through similar experiences on a smaller scale obviously with very similar people to the major players in brexit. A lot of leavers will be upset when what they wanted is delivered.

You're not being cynical. You're just spouting garbage.

Voting to leave the EU was nothing to do with financial gain or exploiting anyone. It's amazing that over 18 months on from the referendum that remainers still have no understanding of why people voted to leave.

Arklight

cogito wrote: »

You're not being cynical. You're just spouting garbage.

Voting to leave the EU was nothing to do with financial gain or exploiting anyone. It's amazing that over 18 months on from the referendum that remainers still have no understanding of why people voted to leave.

The majority of Leave voters are older people who dislike immigration and are unlikely to be educated beyond school level.


What is it we're supposed to "understand" about their motivation?

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

How about we ask the EU to pay for access to the UK single market? Maybe they should pay us for the privilege of selling a lot more of their stuff than they buy from us.

Why would the EU pay to access our tiny market?
Or should both sides pay proportionally based on market size?

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

Voting to leave the EU was nothing to do with financial gain or exploiting anyone. It's amazing that over 18 months on from the referendum that remainers still have no understanding of why people voted to leave.

Being that "why" wasn't on the ballot paper, and there doesn't seem to have been any consultation, what makes you think you're better placed to speak for those 52%?

What exactly do they want? Is it all about immigration after all?

tracey3596

Herzlos wrote: »

Why would the EU pay to access our tiny market?
Or should both sides pay proportionally based on market size?

If it's so tiny explain why the EU are making such a song & dance about Brexit?
Surely if the UK was so tiny and inconsequential the EU would just have said "See ya" and organised a celebratory leaving "do"?

Explain too why you think it fair that one party should pay but not the other? At around £300 billion annually the EU sell us about £60 billion-worth more per year than we sell them. After all, when the sun shines my electricity supplier pays me for the electricity I return to the grid.

Arklight

tracey3596 wrote: »

If it's so tiny explain why the EU are making such a song & dance about Brexit?
Surely if the UK was so tiny and inconsequential the EU would just have said "See ya" and organised a celebratory leaving "do"?

Explain too why you think it fair that one party should pay but not the other? At around £300 billion annually the EU sell us about £60 billion-worth more per year than we sell them. After all, when the sun shines my electricity supplier pays me for the electricity I return to the grid.

You're such a sunny person, Tracey, I should think they owe you a fortune.


:-)


The UK leaving the EU is a big deal but they clearly aren't going to jeopardise the future of the European project to give us special treatment. I don't know how us, them, the vast weight of evidence around you, or the fabric of reality itself can communicate that any more clearly to Brexiteers that would make you understand it.


The Europeans wont negotiate with us separately, and every attempt we have made to do so has led to us getting the same answer - take it to the EU. The EU won't damage itself. So the painful truth you lot need to accept is that, yes, they will sacrifice some trade in the short term in favour of the bloc surviving in the long term.


Europe isn't crumbling, it isn't divided, the cracks you Brexit people constantly predict aren't showing.


To illustrate this another way, you are King Canute and the water is about up to your shoulders now.

Arklight

Even Nige is losing his bottle:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-second-referendum-eu-membership-wright-stuff-video-ukip-maybe-leader-a8153106.html


Yes that's right, Farage now wants a second referendum so he can lose it and then not be blamed for Brexit actually happening.

Herzlos

tracey3596 wrote: »

If it's so tiny explain why the EU are making such a song & dance about Brexit?

They really aren't. They moved on over a year ago.

Surely if the UK was so tiny and inconsequential the EU would just have said "See ya" and organised a celebratory leaving "do"?

Article 50 prevents them doing that.

Explain too why you think it fair that one party should pay but not the other? At around £300 billion annually the EU sell us about £60 billion-worth more per year than we sell them. After all, when the sun shines my electricity supplier pays me for the electricity I return to the grid.

Because the money we send to Europe is expressly for running the EU and thus keeping the market open. What would any money sent from the EU to us be for other than a service charge?
And if we're going to bill the EU a service charge for access, we'll be fine in paying the EU a 10x larger charge?

If the EU were to pay us for market access (given that we need it more than them), would that open the flood gates to everyone else wanting paid?