Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Private_Church

ilovehouses wrote: »

It's really quite simple. If the good people of the NE have fallen out of love with the London political classes they need to stop voting for them and vote for people who they think are going to do a better job of representing them.

That's the point Mark Blyth makes, no one represents the bottom 40%. They no longer trust any mainstream political party and he quite rightly attributes it to "Trumpism". People other than the affluent middle classes are being pushed to the periphery.

Even under Corbyn ,Labour are no longer the party of the working class. Sure they talk a good game but the reality is Labour as a party wish to remain in the EU and in doing so accept FOM which has adversely affected the working class and the poor.

Blyth points out to the affluent classes that "sooner or later the people will come for you" and he is quite right. Push people to the periphery and they will only take so much.He points out the bottom 40% were the ones who paid the heaviest price for thr banking crisis so when austerity hit it was those people who saw their communities hardest hit with government cuts.

System

Private_Church wrote: »

That's the point Mark Blyth makes, no one represents the bottom 40%. They no longer trust any mainstream political party and he quite rightly attributes it to "Trumpism". People other than the affluent middle classes are being pushed to the periphery.

Even under Corbyn ,Labour are no longer the party of the working class. Sure they talk a good game but the reality is Labour as a party wish to remain in the EU and in doing so accept FOM which has adversely affected the working class and the poor.

Blyth points out to the affluent classes that "sooner or later the people will come for you" and he is quite right. Push people to the periphery and they will only take so much.He points out the bottom 40% were the ones who paid the heaviest price for thr banking crisis so when austerity hit it was those people who saw their communities hardest hit with government cuts.

If there's an issue it's that the 40% are choosing representatives who aren't doing a very good job for them. That's not the fault of the 'affluent'.

If people keep voting for candidates based on whether their underpants are red or blue how exactly will anything change? Keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome - good luck with that.

Brexit is a bit of a red herring for this demographic. If you want to know who'll get the shaft from brexit just look at who was getting it before - it'll be the same people.

GreatApe

Private_Church wrote: »

That's the point Mark Blyth makes, no one represents the bottom 40%. They no longer trust any mainstream political party and he quite rightly attributes it to "Trumpism". People other than the affluent middle classes are being pushed to the periphery.

Even under Corbyn ,Labour are no longer the party of the working class. Sure they talk a good game but the reality is Labour as a party wish to remain in the EU and in doing so accept FOM which has adversely affected the working class and the poor.

Blyth points out to the affluent classes that "sooner or later the people will come for you" and he is quite right. Push people to the periphery and they will only take so much.He points out the bottom 40% were the ones who paid the heaviest price for thr banking crisis so when austerity hit it was those people who saw their communities hardest hit with government cuts.

The problem is this nonsense about pushing the bottom half to the periphery
It is reinforcing propaganda by the losers who want to take power so make this nonsense up.
You tell the bottom half the rich are screwing you and wind them up into hating 'the rich and by 'the rich' they actually mean anyone who votes for the current party in power.

The reality is that in developed countries like the USA UK Japan Western-Europe all the functional individuals and families live very good decent lives.

We have a good system. Free trade and capitalism is working very well the only people who are doing badly are the dysfunctional people/families but they would do badly in any system and under any party/government.

In the UK we have high wages full employment lots of freedom and opportunity.
Life is great in the UK. Ignore the propaganda about half the population being screwed by the system its BS

GreatApe

ilovehouses wrote: »

If there's an issue it's that the 40% are choosing representatives who aren't doing a very good job for them. That's not the fault of the 'affluent'.

If people keep voting for candidates based on whether their underpants are red or blue how exactly will anything change? Keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome - good luck with that.

Brexit is a bit of a red herring for this demographic. If you want to know who'll get the shaft from brexit just look at who was getting it before - it'll be the same people.

No body is getting shafted by the government or the system that is just a propaganda themes used mostly by the left to try and overthrow the right. The left can not bring themselves to accept that the UK is a great country with high wages full employment and lots of opportunity and freedom so they have to spread propaganda about the system failing everyone. Fortunately about 40-50% of the population understands their nonsense for what it is but that means another 50-60% are conned into believing their lies.

Yes millions of people in the UK have !!!! difficult lives but if you look at the underlying reasons for these millions of people with !!!! lives almost always it is one or multiple dysfunctions.

Excluding the alcoholics, the drug users, the wife beaters, the child abusers, the parents who care more about going out with their mates rather than spending time with their kids, mental disabilities and the criminals and you would find almost all the rest live good lives.

There are also a large group of simply put liars and bitter people.
Like the question time tax credit woman. 120kg of blubber goes on TV and cries she has to go to bed hungry because after feeding the kids she hasn't enough to feed herself shame on you Tories for cutting my tax credits (round of applause). Of course she failed to tell the audience she has two large dogs and is a fake self employed 'nail artist' to scam the state for tax credits. So a single mother with two large dogs and a pretend job goes on TV to cry abject food poverty despite being obese. Instead of being called out for the liar she is she gets a job as a regional head of momentum! My guess is its possibly unpaid so she goes on as a fake 'nail artist' and is now using the tax credits and benefits to spread the gospel of how terrible the system is she finds herself in

We have it good in this country.
The liars and the hard lefties are so blind they are happy to destroy the system in any way possible to get into power.

System

GreatApe wrote: »

No body is getting shafted by the government or the system that is just a propaganda themes used mostly by the left to try and overthrow the right. The left can not bring themselves to accept that the UK is a great country with high wages full employment and lots of opportunity and freedom so they have to spread propaganda about the system failing everyone. Fortunately about 40-50% of the population understands their nonsense for what it is but that means another 50-60% are conned into believing their lies.

Rephrase it then. If you want to know who will do less well out of brexit just have a look at who was doing less well before - same people.

It doesn't matter what the change is - the less well off, poorly educated and dysfunctional will always do less well out of it. It's because they aren't equipped to benefit.

Agree with the rest of your post - instead of looking at the root causes of their problems they prefer to listen to snake oil salesmen who convince them their own actions have less effect on their outcomes than the actions of 'them'.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

The economy is going to be destroyed anyway.

As soon as the conversation gets political in tone. Then some real nonsense starts to get posted. As the blinkers go on.

Private_Church

GreatApe wrote: »

The problem is this nonsense about pushing the bottom half to the periphery
It is reinforcing propaganda by the losers who want to take power so make this nonsense up.
You tell the bottom half the rich are screwing you and wind them up into hating 'the rich and by 'the rich' they actually mean anyone who votes for the current party in power.

Don't misunderstand me ,I'm a Capitalist with a small "C" and the "C" is short for conscience.

Did you actually watch any of Mark Blyths Lectures?. Here's one about the future of the Eurozone but he makes some very good points about debt.. If you fast forward to 13:50 is a very good example. If you don't agree with him I'm very interested to know your view..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S31VLG8Qi78

Lets not sugar coat this or continue with the charade of the Left blaming the Centre for the ills of the poor being the reason why so many feel disenfranchised.Even the majority of the working class can see through Corbyn's Labour, why else do you think he lost the working class vote.Contrary to what you believe most of us are not idiots but pragmatists.

When the sh*t hit the fan in 2007-8 the banks (those people with assets ,Pensions etc) were bailed out by debt taken on by the whole of the UK population and also the Eurozone countries suffered the same with the Euro and its banks. The top 20% who stood to lose the most if the banks went t*ts up were bailed out by QE etc. The ones who are then expected to pay it back through austerity were the working class and the poor who rely public services the most.I admit some of the cuts were justified and they continue to waste money.

I run my own own business and have done for over 20yrs but I know BS when I smell it.I'm not a loser but I see the reality of everyday life for many that you clearly don't and I don't mean the Lefty con that is foodbanks. I mean where the average working class person is working 50-60hrs a week and yet has to save up to buy a new fridge when the current one packs up. I won't even start about the public sector cuts .

The reality is that in developed countries like the USA UK Japan Western-Europe all the functional individuals and families live very good decent lives.

Whilst the debts continue to rise and cuts continue to bite.

We have a good system. Free trade and capitalism is working very well the only people who are doing badly are the dysfunctional people/families but they would do badly in any system and under any party/government.

That part of your post doesn't even deserve a reply..

In the UK we have high wages full employment lots of freedom and opportunity.
Life is great in the UK. Ignore the propaganda about half the population being screwed by the system its BS.

Near full employment I would agree with but high wages is complete BS, freedom of opportunity where exactly?. We do see a race to the bottom with wages for many ,with the only rise they get is when the Government increases the NMW rates. Over supply of a product whether its houses or Labour reduces the value of that product.

I'm genuine interested in your view of Blyth's seminar if can look past your bigoted view of the working class.I enjoy a debate but if you just want to have a pop at the working class in general then you go for it ,if it gets you off..

cogito

ilovehouses wrote: »

I suspect populism has peaked and the protest parties and the SNP are in decline. If we've not seen, say, a NE local party (for local people) in conditions that were perfect for such a thing the time has passed.

There's a real chance we might see Johnson or Rees-Mogg as PM - brexit has been a boon for the London political classes.

I tend to agree with this as far as the UK is concerned as UKIP has done its job and the SNP is in decline.

It's a totally different matter though elsewhere in the EU. Populism (by which I mean people who think differently from the Elites) has resulted in political change in France, Germany - still with no functioning government is sight more than 3 months on from the election - Austria, Poland and Hungary and stirrings elsewhere. The elite has no answer at present.

GreatApe

Private_Church wrote: »

Don't misunderstand me ,I'm a Capitalist with a small "C" and the "C" is short for conscience.

Did you actually watch any of Mark Blyths Lectures?. Here's one about the future of the Eurozone but he makes some very good points about debt.. If you fast forward to 13:50 is a very good example. If you don't agree with him I'm very interested to know your view..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S31VLG8Qi78

When the sh*t hit the fan in 2007-8 the banks (those people with assets ,Pensions etc) were bailed out by debt taken on by the whole of the UK population and also the Eurozone countries suffered the same with the Euro and its banks.

That is nonsense, the UK debt has gone up >£1 trillion over the decade largely to pay for pensions healthcare and benefits.

The bank bailouts were largely just promises that never had to be called upon. The losses on the bailouts are likely to be a rounding error on the national debt maybe 1-2% of the £1,750 billion naitonal debt will end up as the final cost of the bank bailouts.

Had the banks not been bailed out (primarily with promises not with actual cold hard cash) we would have had a worse recession lasting longer. It would not have been the end of the world and the rich would still be the rich and the dysfunctional would still be the dysfunctional

The top 20% who stood to lose the most if the banks went t*ts up were bailed out by QE etc. The ones who are then expected to pay it back through austerity were the working class and the poor who rely public services the most.I admit some of the cuts were justified and they continue to waste money.

It is just more nonsense. The richest people own shares in companies and most the FTSE 100 are foreign earning companies. So like the brexit vote which saw the FTSE go up as the pound went down if the economy had crashed harder in 2008 if say the government did not bail out the banks with promises then the rich would have just got richer. Also even if someone with £10 million wealth fell down to £5 million wealth they are not going to be eating baked beans to save on food. But if the economy crashed harder the government would have had less resources to pay for peoples pensions and heatlcare

The people who would have lost the most would have been people holding cash savings. You know pensioners and pension funds via gilts. The rich are not stupid they hold shares in companies and property had the banks not been bailed out and there been say a 20% haircut on depositors savings the rich would not have been hit much.

I run my own own business and have done for over 20yrs but I know BS when I smell it.I'm not a loser but I see the reality of everyday life for many that you clearly don't and I don't mean the Lefty con that is foodbanks. I mean where the average working class person is working 50-60hrs a week and yet has to save up to buy a new fridge when the current one packs up. I won't even start about the public sector cuts .

I dont believe there are many functional people in difficult situations in the UK.
UK wages are high and we have full employment.
If anything I would say we have more households throwing away perfectly good electrical just to buy the shiner version than households that would find it hard to replace a Fridge

Can you actually name a functional working family you know that could not replace a fridge?
Not a fictional family a friend of a friend of a friend but an actual family you know?

I only know one such family and they are extremely dysfunctional
But then even they could afford a perfectly good second hand one for 80% off the new price on ebay. They could even afford a new one if they did not spend all their money on drugs alcohol and gambling.

Near full employment I would agree with but high wages is complete BS, freedom of opportunity where exactly?

The median full time male earnings broken down by age are as follows
Age 22-29 = £23,920
Age 30-39 = £31,096
Age 40-49 = £34,736
Age 50-59 = £33,748

Since most people couple up lets look at a young couple in their 30s both working full time earning the median wages for their sex.
The median wage for a couple (Male+Female) both working full time and both age 30-39 = £59,540

Those are high wages those are good wages and half the full time working couples earn more than that.

You have a lot of freedom in this country in capitalism.
Do you think you had more freedom in East or West Germany in 1985?

We do see a race to the bottom with wages for many ,with the only rise they get is when the Government increases the NMW rates.

Why would you concentrate on a minority the min wage people why not look at the actual wages shown above? Sure some people earn minimum wage but most people earn more than that. If you are earning min wage you need to look at getting a better job in a sector with better prospects. Retail and hospitality which usually pays min wage have been poorly paid for decades. Can you name a time when a shelf stacker or a table waiter was rich?

I'm genuine interested in your view of Blyth's seminar if can look past your bigoted view of the working class.I enjoy a debate but if you just want to have a pop at the working class in general then you go for it ,if it gets you off..

I am working class I grew up in a poor borough of London in a council estate.

My observation then and now is that the functional families live good decent lives the dysfunctional families suffer hardship. Even when I was living in the council estate there were clearly two types of families. The functional ones who often had nice tidy clean homes and fairly well behaved kids and the dysfunctional ones who had problem kids and their homes were broken both physically (like holes punched through the walls) and mentally.

I will comment on your video when I watch it later

gfplux

What will it take to keep posters on the Subject of Brexit, the economy and house prices.
Those engaged in political discussion should take that discussion of to other threads.
Thank you.