Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

GreatApe

Windofchange wrote: »

What's your definition of a monopoly? Last time I checked it was a single provider with no competition. Last time I looked there were 101 competitors to the NHS - nuffield health, Virgin Healthcare, Bupa, Various Harley Street practices etc etc. How is the NHS the only place in the UK that you can receive healthcare?

Yup it's all a big scam. Nothing to do with the decades it takes to become a consultant surgeon or similar. In your world I know we can train an 18 year old in 2 weeks to perform neuro surgery, but maybe the amount of medical professionals is limited because it takes a significant investment to produce them, not because of some wicked plan by a group of directors in a dark room somewhere...



Except they don't. They earn maybe 25% more:

https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

Also, factor into this the different income tax bandings with the UK versus the USA and you are way out.

Did you get your million figure off here:

https://www.statista.com/topics/1244/physicians/

Have a read and it shows that 144,000 are inactive, and 44,000 are unclassified. And where is your evidence for all US doctors earning $150k more than their UK counterparts?

Yet another post full of made up numbers and guesswork. :T

I don't have time for a troll so I am going to have to condense my usual longer thought through posts with just links its lazy but hey there is only so much time I can spend on my personall stalker

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-salaries-pay-disparities-000557

Windofchange

economic wrote: »

And i would get a competent GP to refer me for the right treatment rather then waste time and money on a useless CBT therapy that clearly does not work.

The point you need to grasp is that there is no right treatment for mental health. There are so so so so many variables, and so many ways to find someone the help they need. The failure of CBT with you is not a result of a bad GP, but merely part of solving what it is for you that has made you as you are. I come across so many patients day in day out with depression who are on all sorts of remedies. There isn't one answer, there isn't one proven way, this is the point. You need to stop with the it didn't work for me therefore it is useless for everyone train of thought. Simply put, we don't fully understand the brain, and we don't know the perfect way to cure mental illness for each individual. It's only really in the last few years that we have even started to recognise it's a problem within society!

CBT works for some, it doesn't work for others. Strong medications work for some, they make others junkies on a street corner. Exercise works for some, others can't get off the sofa, or put down the can of beer that is for the time being keeping their demons in check.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

Doctors are not infallible
My father GP wanted to increase his statins dosage 3x and add a second type of statin due to a particularly high result

I had a look at his results and the data trend looked odd to me I advised him to stick with his current dosage for another month and get retested. His results turned out fine.
Had he gone with the doctors recommend it would have looked like the increased dosage and additional second drug had reduced a Hugh reading when in fact it was his previous reading that was a statistical anomaly

Saved him from needles additional meds
Doctors clearly need some additional statistical analysis training

PS to anyone reading this listen to your doctor don't listen to some internet nutter. (Don't want to lead people into not vaccinating their kids or not taking their aids medicine because of my story of a small mistake by a doctor. Conventional medicine works and listen to your doctor is a better bet than not listen to them)

Even more reason for AI GPs to be developed. Big data can really help and can analyze statistics and data with ease and accuracy.

Windofchange

GreatApe wrote: »

I don't have time for a troll so I am going to have to condense my usual longer thought through posts with just links its lazy but hey there is only so much time I can spend on my personall stalker

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-salaries-pay-disparities-000557

Finally some numbers. I've presented others that disagree with you. We can leave the forum I guess to decide who they believe. I've had my weeks entertainment. I'll let you explain how this all relates to Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5...

GreatApe

Windofchange wrote: »

What's your definition of a monopoly? Last time I checked it was a single provider with no competition. Last time I looked there were 101 competitors to the NHS - nuffield health, Virgin Healthcare, Bupa, Various Harley Street practices etc etc. How is the NHS the only place in the UK that you can receive healthcare?

Yup it's all a big scam. Nothing to do with the decades it takes to become a consultant surgeon or similar. In your world I know we can train an 18 year old in 2 weeks to perform neuro surgery, but maybe the amount of medical professionals is limited because it takes a significant investment to produce them, not because of some wicked plan by a group of directors in a dark room somewhere...

Except they don't. They earn maybe 25% more:

https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/how-much-do-doctors-in-other-countries-make/

Also, factor into this the different income tax bandings with the UK versus the USA and you are way out.

Did you get your million figure off here:

https://www.statista.com/topics/1244/physicians/

Have a read and it shows that 144,000 are inactive, and 44,000 are unclassified. And where is your evidence for all US doctors earning $150k more than their UK counterparts?

Yet another post full of made up numbers and guesswork. :T

Also check your fracking links one is about ten years out of date the pound is very different and economic performance (wages) have moved differently since 2009

https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/compensation-2017-overview-6008547

There is a better upto date data for you

Have a look and Tell me they are not paid better than UK doctors!

Among all physicians responding to the Medscape survey this year, average annual full-time compensation for patient care is $294,000

That is close to £220,000 on average and they have lower taxes so get to keep most of it. What is the average pay for similar doctors in the UK?

Google 2017 results suggests:
Once qualified, doctors have some of the highest salaries of all professionals. GPs, for example, can expect to earn between £55,000 and £84,000 per year. A doctor working in the Accident and Emergency department earns around £46,000 per year, while cardiologists and neurologists earn in the region of £60,000.

So why is USA healthcare expensive? Nothing to do with £220k wages vs £55k wages?

vivatifosi

Can we please get back on topic? If you want an in depth discussion on the role of CBT in the NHS, start a thread on it, don't threadjack this one.

Moby

Windofchange wrote: »

Only Economic could turn a thread entitled "Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5" into a discussion about his mental health problems, the ineffectiveness of CBT, ObamaCare and a rant about private health insurance.

For what it's worth, there are a host of different treatment options for depression. By far the most effective in my view is exercise / hobbies. You can go to your GP and get tanked up on citalopram or other such meds if you want. You can go to CBT if you want. With mental health there isn't really a simple answer. As others have alluded to, CBT didn't work for you, but it certainly works for others. Saying just go watch youtube videos is just silly. A lot of the actual dealing with depression is interaction in a non-judgemental manner. Talk it out, find your own solution. You can't do this with youtube.

If you go on google scholar, cochrane etc and search for CBT, you will find a range of studies finding everything from limited effects to huge effects with regards to CBT in mental health. You will find the same with medications - if you get the chance, have a watch of Louis Theroux dark states to get a gist of what strong prescription medications can do to the human brain / communities at large:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2017/41/louis-theroux

If you want to go private, then go private. Plenty of Harley Street doctors ready to take your millions. I was privately educated as a kid. Do I think my parents should get a rebate from the government for their taxes that were spent on state schools? I pay for private dentistry - do I want a rebate for NHS dentists as I never use them? I absolutely believe we should provide education, health, safety etc for all as part of our taxes, and if you want to have more then by all means get out your cheque book.

You need to look beyond the end of your nose my man.

A refreshing shaft of light in the murk I was wading through on this thread.

gfplux

Please return to the topic.
If you want to discuss other things then please start a thread about that sudject.
The name of this thread is Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Herzlos

economic wrote: »

Were you or are you a US citizen?

My citizenship wasn't part of Obama care or trumps proposals so I don't see how it'd affect your answer?

economic

Herzlos wrote: »

My citizenship wasn't part of Obama care or trumps proposals so I don't see how it'd affect your answer?

If you were not a US citizen then why should they provide any healthcare? Didn’t you have health insurance you could have used?