Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Filo25

It probably depends on what CBT is used for, I had a CBT course for relatively severe anxiety in my younger times, I found it extremely helpful and still use the techniques to this day, it helped me manage the issue without needing to resort to medication which I was keen to avoid, I know plenty of others in the same boat as well.

So maybe not entirely helpful to say that it is a placebo for all conditions, for some people there is enough of a stigma around these conditions and the talking therapies without adding to it.

economic

Filo25 wrote: »

It probably depends on what CBT is used for, I had a CBT course for relatively severe anxiety in my younger times, I found it extremely helpful and still use the techniques to this day.

Probably. Although don't forget it could still be a placebo effect. Very difficult to know if the treatment did/does help or whether thinking that you had CBT is what caused it to be helpful.

also a lot of the stuff they tell in you CBT you can just simply watch a a few youtube videos. Thats mostly what my therapist did. A few sessions and at the end gave me about 20 youtube videos to watch!!

Filo25

It was pretty much the gold standard treatment for Anxiety back when I was treated for it, not sure if that is still the case but I have family members who are medical professionals and they find it very effective for the anxiety disorders.

Given the thought patterns that cause/exacerbate anxiety it is pretty easy to understand how CBT techniques help if you properly apply them.

Not so much a placebo but there are certainly positive feedback loops in having a treatment that you have confidence can control anxiety symptoms when you get them, although that usually takes a while to get that confidence.

I have no idea what other disorders it is being used to treat and whether it is useful for them, or indeed the standard of CBT available on the NHS, but I certainly wouldn't write it off as a treatment option.

economic

Filo25 wrote: »

Not so much a placebo but there are certainly positive feedback loops in having a treatment that you have confidence can control anxiety symptoms when you get them, although that usually takes a while to get that confidence.

.

What you describe is exactly what placebo is.

economic

GreatApe wrote: »

There are people in very difficult situations and terrible hardship they get to that point because they are dysfunctional people.

Someone who takes their weekly paycheck to the bookies is what? Poor or dysfunctional?
Someone who drinks so heavily that they can barely walk and then goes and picks a fight with the biggest guy in the pub and limps home bloodied is what poor or dysfunctional?

Dysfunctional lives and families lead to poverty. You need to fix the addictions and dysfunction to fix the poverty it creates.

I will not accept it is because of free markets or capitalism or CEOs getting big bonuses.
No that is lefty BS propaganda. Our economic system and governance is very good we have high wages full employment lots of freedom and opportunity. The poverty that does exist and it impacts perhaps millions of people are down to dysfunctional lives not the economic system we follow.

Whilst i agree with what you are saying and see what you mean, it is a combination of the government and economic system that is miss allocating resources to the wrong things that is the problem.

economic

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11204213/Voters-to-get-letters-showing-how-much-of-their-money-is-spent-on-benefits.html

Cant find the latest numbers but i'm sure its not that much different.

So on a £60k salary, about 3.4k of taxes paid is spent on healthcare. Scaling this up by 1.9x on someone earning 100k, that's £6.5k of ones taxes going to the NHS every year for someone earning a 100k a year.

Now i was on about 100k for about ten years. Therefore i have paid roughly £65k towards the NHS in taxes. There is no way i have cost the NHS even a tenth of that in my working life. Even during my whole life i would say at most i would have cost the NHS about 20% of the 65k i have contributed.

This is all despite the mental health problems that i have been suffering. Why cant i have the option of opting out of the NHS, get taxed less by the amount i have contributed in taxes to the NHS and use that money seeking healthcare in the private health service sector? I would get to choose how to spend the money (i am mentally capable of doing that, private health insurance would cost next to nothing vs the taxes i paid on NHS), can chose to stop spending money if i don't see a treatment working and not have wasted my time and money on the NHS?

If everyone had this choice, we would have the private health services that do work staying in business, expanding in supply and driving costs down and the ones not in demand (due to being ineffective treatments) going out of business.

Instead we have no free markets in health services and we have no idea if the money spent is worth it.

Sure as i get older i will statistically be using the NHS more (although if i have my Dad's genes probably not much more then now). But i dont see why i should have to be forced to pay taxes and so forced to use the NHS for all my health problems. Why not have just the most urgent health care offered by the NHS (and i would happy for my taxes to go to this and of course would be a lot less then 6.5k a year) and have everything else private. We urgently need a health care system like Trump wants for the US.

The other thing is based on the link is that i have paid around 85k towards welfare via my taxes. Yet some people think the "poor" need more help?? Dont you think taxpayers like myself have contributed a lot already?

economic

Plus the above does not include council taxes, from which a significant amount (at least my council) pays a lot towards welfare.

economic

Theres a lot that can be done to bring down the cost of healthcare. With AI (along with Biotech) the scope to bring down the marginal cost is great. But we can only get there quicker if capital is allocated appropriately.

With the welfare spending i really question if its all being spent wisely. but even that can be reduced once robotics/AI come along as the marginal cost comes down a lot.

economic

also where does the money get spent from the taxes received through VAT, Inheritance taxes, stamp duty, council tax, capital gains tax etc etc????

Filo25

economic wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11204213/Voters-to-get-letters-showing-how-much-of-their-money-is-spent-on-benefits.html

Cant find the latest numbers but i'm sure its not that much different.

So on a £60k salary, about 3.4k of taxes paid is spent on healthcare. Scaling this up by 1.9x on someone earning 100k, that's £6.5k of ones taxes going to the NHS every year for someone earning a 100k a year.

Now i was on about 100k for about ten years. Therefore i have paid roughly £65k towards the NHS in taxes. There is no way i have cost the NHS even a tenth of that in my working life. Even during my whole life i would say at most i would have cost the NHS about 20% of the 65k i have contributed.

This is all despite the mental health problems that i have been suffering. Why cant i have the option of opting out of the NHS, get taxed less by the amount i have contributed in taxes to the NHS and use that money seeking healthcare in the private health service sector? I would get to choose how to spend the money (i am mentally capable of doing that, private health insurance would cost next to nothing vs the taxes i paid on NHS), can chose to stop spending money if i don't see a treatment working and not have wasted my time and money on the NHS?

If everyone had this choice, we would have the private health services that do work staying in business, expanding in supply and driving costs down and the ones not in demand (due to being ineffective treatments) going out of business.

Instead we have no free markets in health services and we have no idea if the money spent is worth it.

Sure as i get older i will statistically be using the NHS more (although if i have my Dad's genes probably not much more then now). But i dont see why i should have to be forced to pay taxes and so forced to use the NHS for all my health problems. Why not have just the most urgent health care offered by the NHS (and i would happy for my taxes to go to this and of course would be a lot less then 6.5k a year) and have everything else private. We urgently need a health care system like Trump wants for the US.

The other thing is based on the link is that i have paid around 85k towards welfare via my taxes. Yet some people think the "poor" need more help?? Dont you think taxpayers like myself have contributed a lot already?

IMHO we probably couldn't aspire to a worse health system than the US, ruinously expensive without giving universal coverage.

The reason the NHS is struggling has more to do with relative lack of funds than any structural failings, we spend less on healthcare than a lot of European countries and a lot less than US.

With regards to giving more than you take back from government spending that is how any progressive taxation system works, if you do well in life you will put in more than you take out, you still have a lot better life than most at the bottom of the income scale, I put in a hell of a lot more than I take out and I largely don't resent it apart from some of the weird bits of the tax system which lead to ludicrous marginal rates.

Mind you that doesn't mean I'm volunteering to be taxed to death by Corbyn either, balance is important as it always is, we need to have an economy where the incentives remain in place for the good and successful to go out and generate wealth, while at the same time redistributing enough to provide acceptable lives for those who are less fortunate.

I grew up well below the poverty line but was lucky enough to have good parents nonetheless and be born with skills that saw me do well in education and be in demand in employment ever since. I would love to claim that was entirely down to hard graft but really its good luck with genetics. My dad worked harder than I ever did and he barely earned more than minimum wage, at the same time I saw people around me who had little interest in working or contributing anything to society.

Balance for me also means offering support and a good safety net while also ensuring that it isn't possible to just freeload through life while having no interest in working or contributing in other ways.