Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

I now understand why the Tories are still in power.

Brown and Blair came to power on a ticket to eradicate child poverty. By the time they'd both left power nothing had changed. Requires people themselves to take personal responsibility. Not simply expect others to magically find a solution. That's just lazy. Policies are fine. Words are easy to say. Doing somthing requires actual action.

GreatApe

Herzlos wrote: »

I now understand why the Tories are still in power.

I really hope you never have any money problems since I assume you just disappear when you become poor.

I can't fathom that people don't believe poverty is a thing. Must be some seriously sheltered life if your only experience of poverty is benefits street and am overweight woman who doesn't have enough money.

There is a disgusting number of working poor and people who barely live paycheck to paycheck. Must be thousands of them on this forum alone.

However, I can't see us ever agreeing, so I'll just shake my head and move on.

Something like 1/4th of people who win the lotto end up broke a few years later.
Despite having enough money to live very well for a lifetime they end up poor

There are lots of people in the UK who are dysfunctional or have dysfunctional families.
That has little to do with the government.

Two people I know come to mind.
One is a proper alcoholic goes from job to job usually lasting 6 months to 2 years. At his low points he gets blind drunk and picks fights with the biggest person in the pub and ends up black and blue. If it were not for his wife he would be dead or in the gutter.
Another is a taxi driver who has a very dysfunction relationship with his wife. Domestic abuse and gambling problems. Last I heard he drove her up the wall and she is just about this side of sanity with the help of a dozen different pills.
They both have very very !!!! lives and you could describe them as 'poor' but their situation has nothing to do with the Tories and corbyn can't and won't do anything to help them. We have lots of people like this dysfunctional people with very difficult lives. Their lead them to be poor eg if you take your weekly paycheck to the slots you are 'poor' in that you can't pay the rent or eat well that week.

On the other hand I know half a dozen families who have never worked but have clean homes and well behaved kids. They get by on just government benefits. They are not poor they love very decent lives. They do well because they are functional people with functional lives.


We have no poverty in the UK
Wages are high and we have fill employment and those who don't want to or can't work get sufficient benefits.
But of course we have a few million people with really bad lives. Call them 'poor' if you want but dysfunctional is a better way to describe them

Of course we also have liars like the obese tax credit woman who was neither poor nor starving and appeared to be functional she was just lying to get some propaganda across

economic

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Brown and Blair came to power on a ticket to eradicate child poverty. By the time they'd both left power nothing had changed. Requires people themselves to take personal responsibility. Not simply expect others to magically find a solution. That's just lazy. Policies are fine. Words are easy to say. Doing somthing requires actual action.

They were not lazy. They were liars who tried to buy votes by promising these things. This is how politics works.

GreatApe

Moby wrote: »

Economic I don't think you have a clue and it's not something to laugh at either:-

https://www.trusselltrust.org/2017/06/29/cutting-edge-research-provides-unparalleled-detail-uk-poverty/

http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/who-lives-poverty

You are using bucket loads of confirmation bias to fit your narrative. Any reasonable reading of your links shows food banks are being used mostly by dysfunctional people

Mental health conditions affected people in 1/3 of households
Debt: 1 in 3 households were finding it difficult to make minimum monthly repayments on outstanding loans, and nearly 1 in 5 in debt owed money to payday lenders
Almost half of households reported their incomes were unsteady from week-to-week and month-to-month.
1 in 5 had slept rough in the last 12 months


Functional people have steady regular income be it work or benefits. Functional people either have no debt or manageable debt only dysfunctional people borrow from payday lenders.

You then also have totally empty statements and statistics like
'78% are severely food insecure (meaning they had skipped meals and gone without eating'
Well I skip lunch almost every day. I only have breakfast and dinner I have been like that for over 10 years. So if someone surveys me do you ever skip meals the answer would be yes almost every day. Does that mean I am poor? you can sure paint it like that if you were so inclined

And even the tittle is ridiculous. CUTTING EDGE RESEARCH!!! oh my god have they discovered a new fundamental particle? No they just did a survey wow how cutting edge razarrrr sharp.

Oh Jesus the horror '50% had gone without heating for more than four days in the past 12 months' I go without heating for 9 months a year is there somewhere benefits or charity I can get for my destitute situation?

And there are what appears are just plain lies '50% couldn’t afford toiletries'. Their CUTTING EDGE RESEARCH!!!! sounds like it is not even survey of data I am betting it is probably mostly just made up. How nice a round number 50% could not afford toiletries how frequently for how long? made up data imo!

'This pioneering research'. Its a survey my dears it has pioneered nothing and imo its very likely not even a proper survey and is just made up


Particularly concerning are the very high numbers of disabled people or people with mental health problems needing foodbanks.
How stupid, what would be concerning is if very high numbers of able bodied people with no mental heath problems needed food banks.


The only bit that reads reasonable is 'but are also a clear challenge to the new Government to do more to stop people ending up in crisis in the first place' I agree with that but we need to realize it is dysfunctional people and families that fall into hardship because of their dysfunctional problems. It has little to nothing to do with taxes or benefits.

LOTS of functional people live good lives on just benefits

Dr Rachel Loopstra, the lead author of the report, Lecturer in Nutrition at King’s College London. What a surprise. In her shoes I would probably do the same do a few surveys and make some !!!! up to justify my worthless make job 'profession'.

GreatApe

The state of social sciences today

This report was a collaborative project between researchers at the University of Oxford, King’s College London, and The Trussell Trust Foodbank Network. It was jointly funded by the ESRC Impact Acceleration Account at the University of Oxford and the Trussell Trust. The research was designed and facilitated by Rachel Loopstra and Doireann Lalor, with support from Trussell Trust staff. A random sample of foodbanks from England, Scotland and Wales was selected to be invited to participate in the study. This report is based on data from the first 18 participating foodbanks, which were trained to implement and facilitate data collection in their own distribution sites. Over 4-week data collection periods, food banks recruited a significant total sample of 413 households. This reflected a response rate of 71% of eligible households asked to participate.


So no control for participant lies
No control for staff biases
Such a low sample rate (less than 1 person surveyed per day per site!)
And no proper statistical analysis of the data at all

What a farce and to top it off CUTTING EDGE RESERCH!! PIONEERING RESEARCH!!

Fire her and rehire her as a dinner lady at a soup kitchen for the poor

Herzlos

By functional and disfunctional it sounds like you're trying to blame the poor for being poor?

Some people have difficulty with accounting (it's hard to be good with money when you never have enough), some find themselves in debt due to desperation or situation changes and so on. Some are genuinely chancers but most are just people who've been health a bad hand and need a bit of help. That you don't understand /accept that is not their fault.

Is someone not worthy of help because they have a mental illness, disability or lost their job?
How long would you be good for if your main income we just went away?

gfplux

There is obviously no news about Britains difficult process of leaving the EU.
Happy Christmas.

mumf

Its an observation of mine that folks with loads of dosh,top incomes etc. ( and more often than not were born into that world too),think that is how everyone lives. These sort of folks would have been advocates of the Parish Workhouse no doubt in Victorian times.

Poverty is about money,and what it enables.The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which monitors child poverty in particular defines poverty as," a person being unable to participate in mainstream life."

That can be something as simple as a child not having a pound to join in 'no uniform day' when the school is raising money,or not being able to pay for a school trip,or having clothes too small because there are just not sufficient resources because the rent comers first.Kids with dirty clothes because the washing machine has packed up and there's nothing spare to get it fixed

My wife is a teaching assistant and sees this and far more on a daily basis.

Any family in this situation is not !!!!less,undeserving,dysfunctional, addicted or lazy.The descriptions and dismissal of the poor by some of the above posters are sickening.One child at our village school had shoes hanging off his feet.Wife had a word with mum.Turns out they were waiting for Social Security payment and it was delayed.She could not work as she was looking after her husband who had terminal brain cancer.

There but for the grace of god go I!

qwert_yuiop

kabayiri wrote: »

I've spent far too much time in recent weeks in the dealerships of what you might describe as moderately upmarket cars (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Jaguar). Yes...not a good time to be shopping for a car, but...

The *biggest* grumble they all have is the step change in VED once the list price of a car rises above £40K.

It doesn't take many options to push even a modest 5-series over that figure, and when you are faced with £450 per year road tax for 5 years compared with £120 per year, it's an inhibitor.

Wait until April next year for the MAT figures, and you will see what I mean.

An extra £330 a year is not a very big fraction of the huge cost of that sort of car. You’d need to be very keen on your car to spend £40,000 and then have to worry about the last £330. How about a fiesta?

qwert_yuiop

Herzlos wrote: »

Not quite

That's a quick queue we don't get to use anymore, so get to wait in the slower one.

Not quite. Flying into Dublin, you’ll find an enormous queue of EU passport holders, which of course includes British and Irish. A little short queue of Americans, Chinese, everyone else zips through in no time. This would of course be changed if the uk passport holders have to join it, as they are the second biggest proportion.