Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Filo25

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Geography. Impossible to police.

I'm not denying that, but it seems to be the version of Brexit the current government decided the British people voted for.

cogito

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Not an attack. The EU has to move towards fiscal integration to ever work fully. Agree that to Eire this is a major issue though. Be interesting to see what friction this causes.

That's a whole separate debate. Ireland's taxation of Apple was perfectly within the rules as applied by Juncker during the two decades that he was PM of Luxembourg to the detriment of other EU member states whose tax revenues suffered as a consequence. As a small island with a rural based econmy but with the advantage of being an English speaking member of the EU, it had to use this to attract the kind of high tech businesses that would drag its economy into the 21st century and it succeeded.

Fiscal integration in the EU should have taken place at the same time the euro was introduced but it didn't. It hasn't even started to happen and won't as long as Germany holds the pursestrings. Until then, the economies of club med will continue to carry the burden of repressed economies and high unemployment.

tracey3596

Filo25 wrote: »

I'm not denying that, but it seems to be the version of Brexit the current government decided the British people voted for.

Oh lord, here we go again.

The two options on the ballot paper were very simple.
Given that leaving the EU have said all along that access to the single market requires acceptance of all four EU freedoms — of movement of goods, capital, services, and people - and yet the voting majority decided they no longer wished to be part of the EU, perhaps you would explain which "version" you think the British people voted for?

I'm no great fan of politicians regardless of their persuasions but the government are in fact at least attempting to perform the task which their electorate asked them to do - in the face of considerable hostility even from within, sadly.
As has been said before, Brexit is in many ways a poisoned chalice and the only way for this government (or indeed any other would-be substitute) to have any sort of political future for the next few decades at least is to do the bidding of the electorate to the best of their abilities. If not we may see another rise of UKIP or perhaps the formation of an opposite. Only time will tell.

Filo25

tracey3596 wrote: »

Oh lord, here we go again.

The two options on the ballot paper were very simple.
Given that leaving the EU have said all along that access to the single market requires acceptance of all four EU freedoms — of movement of goods, capital, services, and people - and yet the voting majority decided they no longer wished to be part of the EU, perhaps you would explain which "version" you think the British people voted for?

I'm no great fan of politicians regardless of their persuasions but the government are in fact at least attempting to perform the task which their electorate asked them to do - in the face of considerable hostility even from within, sadly.
As has been said before, Brexit is in many ways a poisoned chalice and the only way for this government (or indeed any other would-be substitute) to have any sort of political future for the next few decades at least is to do the bidding of the electorate to the best of their abilities. If not we may see another rise of UKIP or perhaps the formation of an opposite. Only time will tell.

Which wasn't actually my point, I was just saying that within that implementation of the decision, how can you avoid a hard border in Ireland.

You can't fully control the UK border without a border in Ireland.

tracey3596

Filo25 wrote: »

Which wasn't actually my point, I was just saying that within that implementation of the decision, how can you avoid a hard border in Ireland.

You can't fully control the UK border without a border in Ireland.

You're just blustering. Why not, using tech as suggested? And do you not realise that there is a sea between NI and rUK? Are borders at ports not an option in your eyes then?
The UK have made proposals which, just like the settlement (cash) are being pooh-poohed by eurocrats without firm proposals in response. Which means that it is the EU that are pushing for a "hard border", not the UK.

posh*spice

Thrugelmir wrote: »

80% of online purchases made in Eire are dispatched from the UK.

A ferry to Europe does little for UK their bound agricultural exports.

Over simplification of a complex issue with sweeping generalisations is so so easy.

I think mayonnaise meant global England not little England.......

Filo25

tracey3596 wrote: »

You're just blustering. Why not, using tech as suggested? And do you not realise that there is a sea between NI and rUK? Are borders at ports not an option in your eyes then?
The UK have made proposals which, just like the settlement (cash) are being pooh-poohed by eurocrats without firm proposals in response. Which means that it is the EU that are pushing for a "hard border", not the UK.

There is absolutely no chance that the DUP (who this government depend on to survive) will countenance any kind of border/customs control between NI and rUK, they see NI as an integral part of the UK, it is their core belief above anything else.

tracey3596

Filo25 wrote: »

There is absolutely no chance that the DUP (who this government depend on to survive) will countenance any kind of border/customs control between NI and rUK, they see NI as an integral part of the UK, it is their core belief above anything else.

As you yourself said

Filo25 wrote: »

Which wasn't actually my point.

. It is most interesting watching the desperate deviation in your posts to avoid the point at issue.

The point (which you repeatedly seem to ignore) is that the UK promised no hard border. The EU are the ones saying there must be. Which is strange when no hard border works elsewhere for EU countries - Norway/Sweden being one example. Or Finland/Norway. Or how about Switzerland to Austria, Italy etc. ?

So this time will you address the real issue which (again) is why the EU are the ones insisting upon a hard border?

cogito

Not specifically Brexit related but not irrelevant either. In Germany, Merkel has failed to form a government despite the constitutional requirement that one must be formed within 30 days of an election or there has to be a rerun. AfD are screaming about why SPD, the official opposition are not doing anything about it. The president Steinmeier who is no friend of Merky is having an in camera meeting on Monday to try to move things forward.

It seems that Merky is on the ropes and unless she forms a coalition with SPD (which SPD are ruling out) she will either have to try to form a minority government or call another election as the Jamaica coalition seems dead in the water.

It will be interesting to see how the EU exploit the situation at their summit on the 18th December.

Despite Merky's teflon reputation, I suspect she's toast. And May has problems?

tracey3596

That has been mooted as a possibility by various posters for a while & many (like myself) will not be surprised. There is a very real possibility of Merkel very soon no longer being the German Chancellor.
Regarding the talks,

If they fail, Germany would probably hold snap elections, which would leave Merkel increasingly exposed to a rising band of critics within her own ranks and could further bolster the anti-Islam AfD.

https://www.thelocal.de/20171118/crunch-time-for-merkel-to-build-coalition-or-face-new-polls

Regarding Brexit, Merkel's loss of authority/influence will inevitably have some impact but what exactly will depend upon the outcome in Germany.