Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

gfplux

setmefree2 wrote: »

Tbh I can't be bothered going back to look. But why would I make it up?

Well you did make it up.

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

I think you have forgotten that it is Britain leaving the EU not the other way round. When that happens why would the EU show any flexibility. Britain has to do that and obviously has not shown enough flexibility yet. You may not like it but that's what the position the referendum and trigering article 50 too early has done for Britains negotiating position.

Do you not think that the EU demanding ECJ overarch is insulting to the UK. Do you not think that the EU should present an itemised bill instead of saying to us 'how much will you give us?'. Do you not think that the EU demand that Northern Ireland should remain in the Customs Union is insulting to the UK?

Do you think that there is any good reason why the UK should show any flexibility in the face of all these outrageous demands?

gfplux

There are three key issues that both sides agreed had to be given top priority before anything else.
Citizens rights
The financial settlement
The Irish border.
There had to be sufficient progress on all three before discussions would move on to trade and the 101 other things that have to be settled.
Having triggered article 50 without understanding the consequences Britain is now on the back foot. Many posters feel this is unfair but Britains representatives have got themselves in this bind. In June 2016 the the refendum spoke Brexit. The British Government had only one job to do. Yes just one job and they have and are making a mess of it.
As a remainer I believed Britain leaving the EU was wrong but I did not think for one minute that the British Government would not be able to do the one job they had to do, so so badly.
Uncertainty is damaging Britain day by day.
Pressure from EU citizens in Britain and Brits in the EU 27 is building to stop negotiations moving on to trade and then they will lose there KEY ISSUE value.
I don't know but surely the two Irelands don't want to lose that KEY ISSUE position either.
The final KEY ISSUE of the financial settlement can be swiftly solved by the British Government but perhaps they know without more progress on the other two key issues, offering to pay more towards their commitment will not get the talks moved to phase two.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

gfplux wrote: »

There are three key issues that both sides agreed had to be given top priority before anything else.
Citizens rights
The financial settlement
The Irish border.
There had to be sufficient progress on all three before discussions would move on to trade and the 101 other things that have to be settled.

Both sides agreed? When did the UK agree that trade could not be discussed until those three issues had been substantially settled?

cogito

The only sufficient progress that the EU will accept is total capitulation by the UK to every demand in their position papers. Then, if we are stupid enough to do this, they will come back with even more demands.

It baffles me that supposedly intelligent posters are so besotted with the EU that they are unable to see it for what it is. You cannot negotiate with these people as they simply do not understand the word. What we are seeing in these so called negotiations is nothing more than a choreography in which no one wants to be seen to be the one to walk away. Varoufakis's book 'Adults in the Room' should be compulsory reading for everyone with an interest in Brexit whether for or against it.

cogito

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

Both sides agreed? When did the UK agree that trade could not be discussed until those three issues had been substantially settled?

Day One, I believe. That was the flexibility that has been flung back in our faces ever since. A mistake unfortunately but becoming of lesser importance as exit day approaches.

mrginge

gfplux wrote: »

What if the EU parliament votes down the deal. That's a big cliff to fall over.

God I hope so. Would be the final nail in the remainer coffin.

fewgroats

Of course the real sign of Brexit failing would be MPs migrating to more prosperous countries.

Where Stanley Johnson goes, Boris Johnson must surely follow?

Eric_the_half_a_bee

cogito wrote: »

Both sides agreed? When did the UK agree that trade could not be discussed until those three issues had been substantially settled?

Day One, I believe. That was the flexibility that has been flung back in our faces ever since.

That's not my recollection. Who exactly agreed to this and when?

Filo25

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

That's not my recollection. Who exactly agreed to this and when?

David Davis agreed to the EU timing at the start of the talks I believe.