Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Zero_Gravitas

Lornapink wrote: »

They're getting vastly more than the timid terrified Remainers, we're leaving in a big way, ok not quite what I'd want, but not bad and far closer to my aims than yours.


I've copied your post so I can remind you of your predictions that we will all suffer in a disaster, lol. All will be fine, Remaoners wallow in hysteria.

Whilst I’m flattered and not a little disturbed that you think my Internet forum postings worthy of record; it seems only fair to point out that I’ve also kept some of your wilder predictions for future reference

(mainly because one thing of which I am sure is that you’re going to be far more upset than I am when the remainers were right all along )

Filo25

Lornapink wrote: »

So we're somehow humiliated by Trump, what utter nonsense, only bed wetters are so easily emotionally triggered. Trump's insults respect diversity in that he insults everyone, from Merkel to Trudeau.
Macron rolled out the red carpet for Trump and has been very pally, yet the emmotional left never pull out the 'laughing' stock card on him.

In his 2 hour LBC interview this morning, Steve Bannon explained how we can be certain the left is loosing when all they have left is insults, pulling race cards and identity polities.
So pathetic that the left still thinks it can win simply by being against Trump, what utter fools, he will wipe the floor in the mid-terms.

People are proud to be deplorable's in an epic battle with globalist elites. Bannon cited the anti-Trump London protest being far from diverse, once again it was primarily posh white people is oddball sandals with silly little posters.

Why am I somehow not surprised that Bannon would find a fanbase in here.

By the way I could just as easily throw those poorly thought out comments on the left at the nationalist right as well, some Tories seem to be well on their way from being the traditional party of business to being supporters of some bizarre kind of nationalist populism, surely the ultimate kind of identity politics.

Let's be honest for many people that is what drove the Brexit vote, it certainly isn't the economic case for Brexit, because apart from a few on the fringes of economics and a few politicians peddling whatever suits their agenda there isn't really an economic case being put for it.

Trump isn't going to wipe the floor with anyone in the mid terms due to the simple fact he isn't running, although I do think the Republicans will hold on to both houses, largely because the House of Representatives is gerrymandered to hell and the Dems aren't fighting favourable seats in the Senate.

It's a bit ironic for the right to criticise the Dems for just being the anti-Trump party when that is pretty much exactly exactly what the Republicans did in the Obama years.

For what its worth I think there is a fair chance Trump gets re-elected in 2 years if they can keep the economy moving well until then, also depends on whether the Dems can find a decent candidate to run in 2020

Moby

Lornapink wrote: »

So we're somehow humiliated by Trump, what utter nonsense, only bed wetters are so easily emotionally triggered. Trump's insults respect diversity in that he insults everyone, from Merkel to Trudeau.
Macron rolled out the red carpet for Trump and has been very pally, yet the emmotional left never pull out the 'laughing' stock card on him.

In his 2 hour LBC interview this morning, Steve Bannon explained how we can be certain the left is loosing when all they have left is insults, pulling race cards and identity polities.
So pathetic that the left still thinks it can win simply by being against Trump, what utter fools, he will wipe the floor in the mid-terms.

People are proud to be deplorable's in an epic battle with globalist elites. Bannon cited the anti-Trump London protest being far from diverse, once again it was primarily posh white people is oddball sandals with silly little posters.

Rather bizarre post which even more bizarrely got lots of thanks. You talk about me being a bedwetter, defend Trump on the basis that he insults everyone and talk about the London protest as being primarily posh white people. All of your ' analysis' is completely wrong and your use of language clearly comes straight from the Steve Bannon playbook. You don't even seem to realise that you are not going to get the Brexit you wanted, basically because you lack reason and insight into the fact that there is now a general consensus amongst educated people as to how harmful that would be. Do you seriouly believe that Trump's advice to sue the EU was remotely plausible. Citing Trump's lackey, Steve Bannon is no different to citing Tommy Robinson. You seem to be following a dark road which never ends well.

buglawton

Herzlos wrote: »

It'd be a good way to try and blame the EU for the UK not having a plan, but they are never going to accept EU without movement. It also wouldn't satisfy those that don't want to pay our way

She'd be better saving time and just going WTO. I'm sure they could manage to figure that out by March.
Then from the outside we can negotiate our way back in.

It would save time. But the British electorate deserve the appearance or actuality of involvement in the dialogue since they are the ones who will live with the consequences. The GE step is essential also for that reason and would give a thundering Conservative victory. Intriguingly had May bitten that bullet itd be a victory with her at the helm (alternative universe).

Not that Im uncritically for forever Conservative administrations, its just that we need to fight our battles one at a time.

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

Well, duh, it's only a continuation of what has been happening for at least a generation now.

We've sold off much of the utilities and other lucrative business. It's a little bit late to complain about UK being hollowed out now.

A company like Kraft didn't really need the Cadbury workers. They wanted the brand name.

A lot of this has happened whilst inside this precious EU. The reality is that the EU wasn't going to stop any of this change.

There you go again. Blaming the EU. This time for globalisation.
The western world including Britain (lest you forget) embraced globalisation. We all ate or drank the branded burgers, Pizza, coffee (do we still call it a coffee?) hired the cleaning services, catering services. Ordered online from who knows where. We the consumer are to blame if anyone is. It is called progress. We may not endorse the result but few of us can escape blame.
You may be too young to remember the consumer loving the convenience of the corner shop just before going to the large Supermarket to spend most of the weekly grocery money.
To blame the EU for progress is amazing as most of the criticism of the EU is for lack of progress.

gfplux

Tromking wrote: »

The irony of a Luxembourger's use of the 'tin pot' jibe will not be lost on many I suggest.
I too watched the Trump/May presser and I thought (for once) TM came out with a modicum of credit. Not for the first time your personal annoyance over Brexit is tending to inhibit your ability to comment sensibly.

It takes one to know one.

kabayiri

gfplux wrote: »

There you go again. Blaming the EU. This time for globalisation.
...

I think your English skills are fading tbh.

If I wanted to blame the EU I would use words similar to these

"I blame the EU for ..."

I didn't because I don't blame the EU.

It is important to understand that the EU is not able to stop any of these very real, extremely widespread, changes over the last few decades which have impacted the job prospects of people.

This isn't to say that things would be better outside. I think we would have a massive reality check regardless.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

Why am I somehow not surprised that Bannon would find a fanbase in here.

I'm surprised that people take a keen interest in words spoken by an outsider. That tomorrow will be yestedays news.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

It comes down to the price you are willing to pay; whichever way you cut it.

Indeed.

The problem is, those the most inclined to vote for 'disruptive change' also seem to have an enormous entitlement complex that the costs of that change should be born by everyone else except them.

But anyway....

I had a rather interesting lunch while in London last week with an old school friend who has spent the last 25 years working in the civil service and is now at quite a senior level.

Their take on Brexit is that it's an unholy mess.

So much of a mess that nobody in the civil service believes it will be resolved in the next 10 to 15 years anyway, and that it will consume almost all of the resources of government for the next two or three parliaments to the cost of everything else voters care about.

To sum up their opinion, politicians refuse to tell voters the truth (specifically around the EU and immigration) as voters don't want to believe them, so it'd cost them their seats if they tried.

But achieving what voters think they want on those topics would be so destructive to the economy and society, that if ever delivered, it would cost them their seats regardless.

So they muddle, obfuscate, and delay, waiting for social attitudes and/or the demographics to change so the very few achievable courses of action become politically palatable as well.

buglawton

I think Hamish you’ve managed to explain why we need a clean Brexit, probably staight to WTO rather than faffiing about. In the same way that a clean break in a bone is much easier to fix than a messy fracture.

From a WTO starting point there can be nice clear negotiations with the EU which will want to preserve its €80BN/annum trade surplus with us.

And that a high ranking civil servant should be evisaging many upcoming years of jobs for his boys surprises me not at all.