Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

buglawton

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The eu are making up the rules as they go. They simply do not want it to look like it will be anything like easy and profitable for any country to leave the eu...

I agree that the money is what really riles the EUrocrats. OK, during the big EU build-out project, lots of peripheral regions and new poor countries got much beautiful infrastructure built on EU funds - the £BNs that the richer countries contributed.

But the EU is no longer a start-up. So the reason why gargantuan fees - £100/head/annum man woman & child for Norway as an example - are still needed is a deep mystery.

Are these huge fees (£8.6 BN net to EU from UK last year) to fund some common services e.g. defence? No, we pay our own already.

Are they an entry fee to access the single market? If so they are unjustified because the UK should qualify for that as an EU or EFTA member, bound by it's 2-way trade rules, for free. Let's not forget that in exchange for UK access EU market, EU gets free access to ours.

Are they for regional aid? If so, the UK with some very underprivileged regions and poor transport and health services compared to EU peers, needs every penny of it's own money.

phillw

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

The eu are making up the rules as they go. They simply do not want it to look like it will be anything like easy and profitable for any country to leave the eu.

The rules are pretty clear, if you want the good you have to take the bad. You can't do what the UK wants to do and have your cake and eat it.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

As they are making up the rules they could have made up one whereby a leaving country could trade with the eu on leaving on the basis of X tariff but no, they decided to do it this way.

The good friday agreement gets in the way, but the EU is perfectly willing to trade with us with WTO tariffs and quotas. It's the UK that doesn't want that, we want to pick and choose all the good things out of EU membership.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I do not believe for one second that, if we had set out the way we wanted to negotiate, they would have done anything other than stamp their feet and say no.

The UK still hasn't given any indication it's got a mature negotiating stance, so they don't need to stamp their feet. They just need to say no, like they did three times when we begged to join in the first place.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

There is no way they will willingly let their cash cow go without trying to wreck us first. After all, we refused to have our economy ruined by the euro, they have to find some way of trying to wreck our country as a parting shot.

If we'd joined the euro then we'd have a load more gold reserves for a start. Because we wouldn't have sold them off in 1992.

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Hopefully the way they have acted whilst we are trying to leave will make any other net contributors think twice about joining, and the fact that so many net takers want to join is sure to make the eu more than unsteady on their feet. Hoist by their own petard.

The rest of europe think we're petulant idiots. I have to keep telling them it's only 52%.

.string.

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

Not quite. It’s actually qualified majority voting in accordance with Article 238(3)(b):

“(b) By way of derogation from point (a), when the Council does not act on a proposal from the Commission or from the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, the qualified majority shall be defined as at least 72% of the members of the Council representing Member States comprising at least 65% of the population of these States.”

True, but the same difference with respect to Ireland and Spain, which was my point, which about the EU claiming they must be satisfied.

phillw

After Gove's interview...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6724568/michael-gove-admits-hes-not-happy-with-all-of-theresa-mays-brexit-plan-but-says-cabinet-needs-to-unite-behind-it-anyway/

The Environment Secretary said: 'You shouldn't make the perfect the enemy of the good'

I wonder quite why we had a referendum, surely the only reason to vote leave was to try to make perfect the enemy of good???

He must just be happy enough with the tax evasion and the powers he'll have over exploit hard working people, which is the main reason for the brexit support in the government.

Lornapink

Remainers urge for a second vote.
What would the ballot paper question be?
'Do you wish to accept the new deal or Remain'?

But Remain is an unknown quantity, there is no status quo Remain;

Guy Verhofstadt, said !!!8220;that the door to the EU would remain open during Brexit negotiations, but it will be a brand new door, with a new Europe, a Europe without rebates, with real powers and with unity.!!!8221;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/perks-end-uk-eu-guy-verhofstadt

Lornapink

I argued since before the referendum that Brexit wan an opportunity to innovate and that the City would benefit by us leaving.

Now we learn the City wants no part in a trade deal with the EU, just as we predicted. This was covered in Sunday Politics, London today. Lol, so much for Banks all leaving !

Also we argued many times in the past that EU regulations are harming the City, that we'd be better off out as a global financial services player with more autonomy.

New EU Mifid2 regulations killing City business

https://semperfidem2004.wordpress.com/2016/08/16/brexits-non-impact-on-the-city-of-london-follow-the-money/

Lornapink

phillw wrote: »

He must just be happy enough with the tax evasion and the powers he'll have over exploit hard working people, which is the main reason for the brexit support in the government.

Remain was backed by all the City Banks and their tax evading Accountant chums. The corporates adore the EU protection shop, it keeps competition down to a minimum & provides plentiful MW labour.

What do you most like about the EU external tariff on global trade?
What do you admire about the fact the ECB is still having to print money?

Lornapink

phillw wrote: »

The rest of europe think we're petulant idiots. I have to keep telling them it's only 52%.

What do you think of the Germans and Italians needing months to form shakey coalitions?
What do think of the nations that boycotted the immigration summit and refuse to take orders?
How do you feel about far right politicians in plenty of EU Govt's such as those of Italy, Austria, Germans, Poland and Czech Republic?
Denmark is planning banning immigrants from sending their kids abroad for top-up schooling. France bans fact covering.
Denmark has extremely hostile asylum system.
Sweden's UKIP riding high in polls.
Veal crates, force fed geese n ducks, horses blinded before bull fights.


You have quite an odd view of reality if you think the EU sit's atop a moral Everest. I guess you believe we will be force fed American chicken, I know several deft types that think this.

vivatifosi

Lornapink wrote: »

I argued since before the referendum that Brexit wan an opportunity to innovate and that the City would benefit by us leaving.

Now we learn the City wants no part in a trade deal with the EU, just as we predicted. This was covered in Sunday Politics, London today. Lol, so much for Banks all leaving !

Also we argued many times in the past that EU regulations are harming the City, that we'd be better off out as a global financial services player with more autonomy.

New EU Mifid2 regulations killing City business

https://semperfidem2004.wordpress.com/2016/08/16/brexits-non-impact-on-the-city-of-london-follow-the-money/

As a pension fund trustee, I thought that the extra transparency and regulation was a good thing.

.string.

Lornapink wrote: »

Remainers urge for a second vote.
What would the ballot paper question be?
'Do you wish to accept the new deal or Remain'?

But Remain is an unknown quantity, there is no status quo Remain;

Guy Verhofstadt, said !!!8220;that the door to the EU would remain open during Brexit negotiations, but it will be a brand new door, with a new Europe, a Europe without rebates, with real powers and with unity.!!!8221;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/perks-end-uk-eu-guy-verhofstadt

Yes, the last para of Article 50 states:

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

So we join the Euro, submerge our military, have EU wide taxes and so o add nausea. It would not be back where we were.

People arguing for remaining in the EU should wise up and bury their hobby horse.