TV Licensing - Do I Need to Remove Antenna Cables from room?

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  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,181 Forumite
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    edited 18 November 2017 at 8:08PM
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    Yes it does say it all, pretty sad viewing of these occupiers, who are obviously fiddling their TV licence, can blatantly stand there and just front it out and get away scot free with the £147 a year TV licence
    There is no evidence from the video that shows anyone "obviously fiddling". That is simply your imagination.
    .HDW, I think you should remove that link.It is advertising the website to encourage people to break the law
    I have watched the video all the way through and find no encouragement to break the law. The only "issue" is that one of the TV Licence people is actually operating in Ireland, where the regime and laws are different.

    I've never seen any evidence that TVLicenceResistance encourages people to break the law - I'm always pleased to see them going out of their way to encourage people NOT to break the law. I believe that is a condition of use of their site, and I've certainly seen transgressors being dealt with.

    Edit: More generally, I'm not sure I see any relevance to TVLicenceResistance in these discussions on MSE. I think the danger is that you latch on to a set of false notions about that site, and use them to make points here that will leave most MSE-ers completely bemused and drag MSE into a kind of "fantasy libel" issue. If you could refrain from making false statements about TVLicenceResistance (or indeed any other third party) that would be appreciated.
    Its also very sad to see how a money making website like TV licence resistance...
    It is not a "money making website". They do not sell their advice, and they do not sell merchandise, though I quite fancy an LLF mug. It is a website based in the community that it represents.
    ...can aid and abet people to defraud the BBC...
    There is no defrauding of the BBC.
    Personally I consider TV Licence Resistance to be a criminal organsation
    I suggest you report it to the Police, then. They may be unpopular with the BBC and its supporters, but they are doing nothing wrong, and certainly nothing criminal.
    Cornucopia appears to have a zeal of a missionary with his absurd claims that people are "legally licence free "
    What "absurd claims"? I am not saying that any specific people are LLF - I have not assessed them. If they say that they are LLF, then that is good enough for me, because I am not about to start judging other people for no good reason. I am saying that there is a concept of being LLF, and giving support to a useful term that helps people gain confidence in the face of the misdeeds and misdemeanours of TV Licensing.
    ... what ! forever ? and that they are never going to lapse for even one minute and start sneakily viewing tv as normal, both live scheduled and the BBC,.
    Anyone following my/their advice fully will be putting their AV equipment beyond that use. For example, I block iPlayer using my ISP's blacklist facility, and advise others to do the same.
    Lets hope the BBC gets some electronic wizardry in operation very soon to trap them all...
    They say they have that. So either they are lying, or they do not have the same "missionary zeal" that you do, or they already know that the numbers are not as stark as you think they are.
    who are currently laughing their heads off at how simple it is to defeat the hard working Capita employees, simply by taking advice from this website to close the door and do not give any information at all to Capita
    It is your legal right to close the door on Capita staff and/or deny them any information. Do you understand the concept of legal rights?

    I know that you want the law to operate in a particularly harsh way as far LF evasion is concerned. However that does not make it so. I cherish the legal rights we have - and fear the almost constant pressure for the State to extend its reach into ever more areas of our lives.
    Cornucopia is very selective. He cherry picks bits and bobs of info from the BBC he chooses to believe and uses it to back up his LLF rubbish.
    I believe virtually all of the data that the BBC releases, though as I say, not enough is released to form a coherent statistical picture of exactly what is happening, and I'm sure that is intentional. (It's a curious kind of public authority that doesn't want the Public to know what it is doing).

    The words I select. Because we know that some of them are false or misleading. In fact we know that for sure because the BBC Trust and the Perry Review suggested that "improvement" of some of those words was required. At times, the BBC also contradicts itself - therefore one or other of its statements is false.
    TV Licence Resistance website even has the bare faced cheek to display old photos of a half naked and long dead Jimmy Savile
    Personally, I would be more than happy never to see the man ever again. However, you cannot deny that the BBC itself has reported him to be the most prolific child abuser in known British history.
    ... as a defence in aiding and abetting the fraudsters to operate with impunity and just slam the door on Capita men and women.
    If people want to use the Savile scandal (either the crimes of the man himself, or the BBC's gross mishandling of those crimes, or its failure to protect children within its duty of care, or its misreporting and self-censorship then those seem like not a not unreasonable starting point from which to muster the effort required (at times) to deal with TV Licensing.

    I don't think it's a "defence" as such, because no defence is needed. The information and support provided by TV Licence Resistance is much the same as elsewhere in the public domain, and is consistent with information supplied by the BBC and official sources.

    I appreciate that you have a particular perspective on this, although I've previously suggested some useful caveats for you on that. Either way, it is for the BBC to take the decisive action that you wish it to, and you should lobby them or your MP if you feel that strongly about it. Lambasting those of us who are simply stating the legal truth and our low opinions of TV Licensing's non-compliance with the law is pretty pointless.

    To sum up, here's the BBC's take on it:-
    You have no obligation to grant entry to an enquiry officer if you don’t wish to do so.
    ... they [householders being interviewed] have the right not to answer any of the questions.

    Unfortunately, they cannot bring themselves to state that no response is required to their letters - to their eternal shame. However, this has been stated both by the BBC Trust and in Parliament.
  • LAWKO
    LAWKO Posts: 2 Newbie
    edited 18 November 2017 at 12:30PM
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    Can some one please Reply to this i copyd from TV Licence webside/
    Is that mean evry one have to pay evn when you don't watch life TV ?

    When don’t I need a licence to watch TV?

    You don?t need a TV Licence if you never watch or record programmes as they?re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, and you never download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer ? live, catch up or on demand.
    This applies to any provider or device you use, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorder.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,181 Forumite
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    edited 18 November 2017 at 12:36PM
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    LAWKO wrote: »
    Can some one please Reply to this i copyd from TV Licence webside/

    When don’t I need a licence to watch TV?

    You don?t need a TV Licence if you never watch or record programmes as they?re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, and you never download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer ? live, catch up or on demand.
    This applies to any provider or device you use, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or Blu-ray/DVD/VHS recorder.

    What's the question?

    Without a TV Licence you can:-

    - Watch video-on-demand services like Netflix & Amazon, including any content that was originally made/shown by the BBC.

    - Watch commercial catch-up services like All4, Demand5, ITV Hub and UKTV Player, taking care to avoid the live streams available on certain platforms.

    - Watch catch-up services like films and boxsets on NowTV, but not the live streams.

    - Watch DVDs & Blurays.

    - Play Videogames.

    - Watch pre-recorded material on Youtube (which is most of it), including BBC programs placed there.
  • RichardD1970
    RichardD1970 Posts: 3,795 Forumite
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    edited 19 November 2017 at 1:55PM
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    Yes it does say it all, pretty sad viewing of these occupiers, who are obviously fiddling their TV licence, can blatantly stand there and just front it out and get away scot free with the £147 a year TV licence
    .HDW, I think you should remove that link.It is advertising the website to encourage people to break the law
    Its also very sad to see how a money making website like TV licence resistance can aid and abet people to defraud the BBC and the double whammy of making an easy living themselves selling ad space at the same time.Shocking website and it should be closed down. Personally I consider TV Licence Resistance to be a criminal organsation
    Cornucopia appears to have a zeal of a missionary with his absurd claims that people are "legally licence free " what ! forever ? and that they are never going to lapse for even one minute and start sneakily viewing tv as normal, both live scheduled and the BBC,. Pull the other one ! Lets hope the BBC gets some electronic wizardry in operation very soon to trap them all, who are currently laughing their heads off at how simple it is to defeat the hard working Capita employees, simply by taking advice from this website to close the door and do not give any information at all to Capita
    I have the visual proof in my unique job that nearly everyone who "claims " to "not require a licence " is defrauding the BBC.
    Cornucopia is very selective. He cherry picks bits and bobs of info from the BBC he chooses to believe and uses it to back up his LLF rubbish.
    TV Licence Resistance website even has the bare faced cheek to display old photos of a half naked and long dead Jimmy Savile as a defence in aiding and abetting the fraudsters to operate with impunity and just slam the door on Capita men and women.

    You really are quite obnoxious aren't you?

    Everyone without a TV licence is a criminal? TV licence resistance a criminal organisation :eek: :rotfl::rotfl:

    My in-laws have been "legally licence free" for about 15 years (after there last child left home) and have no means whatsoever of breaking the rules. If they are in (which is rarely) then they listen to the radio, read and play cards etc.

    It's no wonder that people don't like or trust the "hard working" (:rotfl:) Crapita employees when you spout crap like this.
  • House_Martin
    House_Martin Posts: 1,462 Forumite
    edited 19 November 2017 at 12:08AM
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    You really are quite obnoxious aren't you?

    Everyone without a TV licence is a criminal? TV licence resistance :eek: :rotfl::rotfl:

    My in-laws have been "legally licence free" for about 15 years (after there last child left home) and have no means whatsoever of breaking the rules. If they are in (which is rarely) then they listen to the radio, read and play cards etc.

    It's no wonder that people don't like or trust the "hard working" (:rotfl:) Crapita employees when you spout crap like this.
    "most people " "many " are fiddling the TV licence. I do not say that EVERYONE is fiddling the licence fee. I ve made that quite clear.
    YOU should be more upset that so many are thieving from the BBC who should be paying the £147 a year instead of attacking me..This is supposed to be a friendly forum .Please stick to MSE rules
    why are you not incandescent about all the millions getting away with it ? You should be !
    I certainly do not trust the majority who claim they do not need a licence because I get behind their front doors so often and see that they are just liars.
  • silverwhistle
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    In the Utility industry we hand deliver Warrants of Entry, just to make sure that the occupier cannot claim that it was nt delivered.
    I ve always suspected that if there is no response to a hand delivery then the next step is Capitas "good guy " visit followed by the "bad guy " who puts more pressure on to people they are sure are transgressing.
    I only know about the "good guy/bad guy " visits from a Capita employee I used to see fairly often on my rounds

    I used to work for a utility when we still had meter reading in-house. It would appear ethical standards have gone down with outsourcing, and I'm sure the Data Controllers I knew would not be happy with your actions and even less happy that you should spout on an internet board.

    What exactly does the 'bad guy' do, it sounds like you have been watching too many B movies? If "they are sure" about somebody transgressing I presume they have some evidence, or do they just rely on assumption like you?

    I have had various letters which have an extra window with dates on the front and big letters saying "Are you in on this day?". So far they have not called on any of the three occasions, the last one this last week. So why send such letters? On the basis that they are not doing it to be helpful I have assumed it's to try and embarrass or intimidate me, and I am really not impressed.

    Of course they may have passed by, but as they will not have seen any evidence of a TV and I've taken the aerial down, perhaps even they have come to the conclusion that they are wasting their time.
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,181 Forumite
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    "most people " "many " are fiddling the TV licence. I do not say that EVERYONE is fiddling the licence fee. I ve made that quite clear.
    The problem is that you've made it abundantly clear that you are prepared to judge other people on the basis of zero evidence. You've presumed that all the householders in the video are evaders on the basis of them filming Capita staff, demanding that they operate to their own rules, and generally calling them to account. Where is the connection there?
    YOU should be more upset that so many are thieving from the BBC who should be paying the £147 a year instead of attacking me..This is supposed to be a friendly forum .Please stick to MSE rules
    I would say that you started with the aggressive language and unfounded accusations way before anyone took serious offence at it. Now that you've made it clear that you understand those to be the rules of the forum, perhaps you (and everyone) can stick to them?
  • Cornucopia
    Cornucopia Posts: 16,181 Forumite
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    edited 19 November 2017 at 1:13PM
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    I have at least 8 years of "evidence", my evidence I see with my own eyes, which is a bit better than what Capita present in court to get a conviction. If the truth of what I have been observing is deemed "aggressive " than so be it.
    I have explained to you why what you are seeing may be not be a true representation of the overall situation. You are seeing a subset of addresses. We have also discussed the issue that you should not have access to information about people's TV Licence status when you enter their homes to read their meters, and that if you do, it may well be against the law (the DPA). I would say that corporate DPA breaches are probably more serious than individual TV Licence evasion, but IANAL.

    You can understand how seeing such data leakage (and the corporate negligence behind it) makes people here uncomfortable, especially if they or their friends and families may be in scope for being unlawfully "investigated" by their Meter Readers.

    There is a reason why Capita does not generally have direct evidence of TV Licence evasion to present in Court - it is because it cannot use subterfuge to obtain it (for example by entering people's homes under the cover of an unrelated statutory responsibility). Therefore it presents what it has - generally a confession (though whether that meets the necessary standards is another question entirely).

    Rather than rant pointlessly here about how unfair it all is, can I suggest you do some research into why it "works" the way it does, and then we could perhaps have a sensible discussion about it?
    I have been receiving quite a lot of nasty , uncouth language from other Forum Members on here, for simply stating what I have been seeing in the course of my job...
    You can understand how seeing such data leakage, and the strident way in which you present it makes people uncomfortable and angry, and you are not averse to "uncouth language" yourself.
    getting behind the "thou shalt not pass " attitude of the majority of offenders who deny Capita employees a couple of minutes to inspect their TV equipment
    You obviously missed both my previous information that the Capita "inspection" was voluntary and the advice from the BBC which confirmed it. Let me spell it out for you: "thou shalt not pass" is not an attitude, it is a legal right in this context.

    I get that you hate the whole regime for its laxity, but we are not going to resolve that here. You need to take it up with your MP and the BBC - good luck with that, when you explain the data leakage behind your "unique insights".
    Personally Cornucopia my view of YOU is you should depart the TV advice moneysaving forum section forthwith.
    I'm afraid that isn't going to happen, and I would hope that if it ever did it would be based on something rather more sensible than the wishes of someone with a clear vested interest.
    This section of the forum is supposed to be advice on other matters relating to broadcasting and not the legalities of buying the TV licence.
    It's not for you to set the scope of the MSE forums. I take my lead from the official MSE article on the TV Licence, which quite clearly considers being LLF as a money-saving option.

    There is presently an offer on Now TV (for both new and existing customers) of £99 for a 1 year Pass for Entertainment and Cinema. A Sky subscriber with a TV Licence stands to save at least £500 over that year, by making the switch.
    You should not be on here pointing out advice on anything to do with TV licences because ,as you well know, MANY will simply be using information gleaned on here simply to find ways to defeat the Capita employees and at the same time save themselves £147..
    I still don't think you've grasped the concept of citizens' rights. If someone has the right not to do something, then that is that. The idea that justice is best served when people are ignorant of their rights is just appalling IMHO.
    You ALWAYS have the last word on this subject.I would dearly like it to be your last words for good on this forum board at least.You have a conflict of interests with your links to TV Licence Advice website and other blogs published on the internet.
    I really do think that all of that is off-topic for this thread. What difference does it make where else I post, as long as everything I post here is true and accurate? You are more than welcome to query anything that you believe isn't true or accurate, and I will provide external references and/or reasoning behind it.

    This is the real issue you have, I think. You cannot accept that the approach of the Powers That Be on this matter can possibly have flaws or legal limitations, even when confronted with them directly. You then rant at the people pointing out the flaws when your real issue is with the people responsible for them - the BBC and the Government who to your dismay are not here on MSE (or anywhere else) answering for their actions.
  • HWW
    HWW Posts: 103 Forumite
    edited 19 November 2017 at 9:49PM
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    I'm afraid HM is an example of how BBC/Capita/TVL assume guilt. their scummy accusing letters are an example of that. ASH_M1 attitude, to a T, & "She" is Capita PR, along with Mikw, Human nature and a few more bits of BBC PR that infiltrate many forums (using different usernames).


    Cornucopia, is doing a grand job, not only to keep people legal - but to save money in the process.
    The UK, would be far better off WITHOUT the BBC, in my humble opinion. It is just so biased to it's own defence & protection, it is unreal.


    Yes, the BBC would love to be able to paint probably one of the worst !!!!!philes ever (Jimmy Savile) into history. But the Honest, general public will never allow THAT to happen. In fact, he is very probably, one of the principle reasons, why Licence free households, has shot up from 2% to about 9% .


    They are Just guilty of not paying for a BBC, that did nothing at all to stop this evil !!!!!phile for many decades. That is what you need to learn HM.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,102 Community Admin
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    My god when are the pitchforks coming out and people marching on BBC headquarters lol
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