How to deal with a brother TAKEN over parents finances..

Ames

Rags2riches wrote: »

Thanks - Yes they provided this to me of their own accord. He knew within a few days they had received thier credit files on their own accord, and started questioning them, at which point my mum flipped and said she had enough to deal with coping with everyday life.

I'd been assuming he was hiding statements from them, if they've seen the statements and know their savings are gone and debts racked up in their place then there's really nothing you can do.

It sounds like they know exactly what's going on and just don't want to accept it and face up to what their son's done.

Pollycat

Rags2riches wrote: »

So it seems to me I am deliberating between:

a) I ignore it, as many of you have suggested. I'm not certain what sort of relationship I could have going forward. It would seem very fake, knowing whats going on in the background. There is always hope that my mum will kick my brother out of her accounts and take on some personal responsibility for their finances, but to date she has already had ample chance to do so which she hasn't taken.

The fact my brother isn't willing to talk clearly demonstarates to me how irresponsible and lacking in emotional intelligence he is. He chose to intervene in their finances. Nobody forced him to. Whilst doing so they've suffered a large amount of losses. That to me shows he demonstrates a lack of financial accumen. Notwithstanding as an ex-bankrupt himself, I've witnessed him taking poor financial judgement in the past. Would you walk away knowing this person has access to their accounts?

b) Report it to Social Services - and let them intervene. This is likely to put immediate pressure on my relationship with them even further - and may amount to no further action taking place.

I think those people who have suggested 'ignoring' it have done so because your Mum doesn't appear to have had her lightbulb moment yet about the actions of your brother so it would be pointless to report this situation to anyone unless your Mum is going to tell the truth about what he has done with hers and your Dad's money.
And that includes option b) as unless she is going to stop protecting your brother you will be wasting people's time which would be better spent on victims/vulnerable who want their help.

You are of the opinion that your brother "isn't willing to talk clearly demonstarates to me how irresponsible and lacking in emotional intelligence he is".

To me, it screams "I don't want to talk about it because I've had off with a shedload of money and at the moment my Mum isn't screaming for the Police so I'm just going to keep on doing what I've been doing".

Malthusian

No-one suggested ignoring it. They suggested you do nothing. Which is completely different. "Ignoring it" is what ostriches do*, "doing nothing" is what cats and goalkeepers do - waiting for the moment at which they can do something.

As others have said, in the current position, asking social services to intervene will achieve nothing (other than wasted time). They will ask your mother if your allegations are true, she will say "oh no, everything's fine", again, and they will go away. Are you expecting them to start going through your parents' bank statements? They're social workers, not forensic accountants.

In your position I would ask them if they want me to help look at their finances (without making accusations) and I would also be suggesting that they should make a Lasting Power of Attorney. Anyone of their age should have an LPoA, and especially if they have complex financial arrangements. If they demur on one or both, do nothing, but make sure they know they can ask you for a second opinion at any time.

*I know it's a myth

Article50

You have my total sympathy for the situation.

There is no doubt your mother made a fundamental and potentially catastrophic error of judgment in allowing your brother any where near her finances especially in view of his previous bankruptcy.

Her second error was lying to the police saying she knew all about what he had done.

In essence she knowingly let a previous bankrupt fill in forms presumably in her name to obtain a re-mortgage which was not used for its original purpose, numerous bank accounts and credit cards. As far as I know all lenders ask about previous bankruptcy and would take a dim view and certainly might consider fraud especially if her signature is on the forms.

In view of the above I would be very circumspect about involving the authorities yet as they may discover the above facts.

In essence I agree with Malthusian but not on the LPA. An LPA will take at least a year to set up which is time you do not have. In that time the £55 grand will have evaporated into space.

Your best course of action is to get your mother to divest your brother of any involvement and between you determine exactly the situation. I find it strange that creditors have not been knocking on the door which is why it is imperative that the real situation is determined with every account.

It may be retreivable if action is taken now, the £55 Grand will help but your brother must be taken out of the loop as soon as possible and not allowed near the £55 grand..

Clearly this is traumatic but the only other option will be utter penury for your mother and father if the situation drifts and nothing is done.

I wish you luck.

Pollycat

Article50 wrote: »

You have my total sympathy for the situation.

There is no doubt your mother made a fundamental and potentially catastrophic error of judgment in allowing your brother any where near her finances especially in view of his previous bankruptcy.

Her second error was lying to the police saying she knew all about what he had done.

In essence she knowingly let a previous bankrupt fill in forms presumably in her name to obtain a re-mortgage which was not used for its original purpose, numerous bank accounts and credit cards. As far as I know all lenders ask about previous bankruptcy and would take a dim view and certainly might consider fraud especially if her signature is on the forms.

In view of the above I would be very circumspect about involving the authorities yet as they may discover the above facts.

In essence I agree with Malthusian but not on the LPA. An LPA will take at least a year to set up which is time you do not have. In that time the £55 grand will have evaporated into space.

Your best course of action is to get your mother to divest your brother of any involvement and between you determine exactly the situation. I find it strange that creditors have not been knocking on the door which is why it is imperative that the real situation is determined with every account.

It may be retreivable if action is taken now, the £55 Grand will help but your brother must be taken out of the loop as soon as possible and not allowed near the £55 grand..

Clearly this is traumatic but the only other option will be utter penury for your mother and father if the situation drifts and nothing is done.

I wish you luck.

I too wish the OP luck with the bit in bold.
He will certainly need it.

Malthusian

Article50 wrote: »

In essence I agree with Malthusian but not on the LPA. An LPA will take at least a year to set up which is time you do not have. In that time the £55 grand will have evaporated into space.

Two to three months plus however long it takes you to fill in the forms.

What alternatives are there that will take less time? You say the parents should cut the brother out immediately which is true, but the OP's already banged his head against that particular wall. The £55 grand will probably evaporate anyway.

The parents have no reason not to appoint the OP as attorney, even within their fantasy world where everything the OP's brother is doing is fine. Everyone their age should have an LPoA in place, and the OP is the obvious candidate, as the other son is an ex-bankrupt. (You can appoint a discharged bankrupt as attorney but nonetheless it's a good reason not to.)

The reason creditors aren't knocking on the doors is that the parents are paying the interest.

Mojisola

Malthusian wrote: »

The parents have no reason not to appoint the OP as attorney, even within their fantasy world where everything the OP's brother is doing is fine.

Wouldn't it lead to the parents appointing both sons as attorney which will just give the brother even more control over their money?

Article50

Malthusian wrote: »

Two to three months plus however long it takes you to fill in the forms.

What alternatives are there that will take less time? You say the parents should cut the brother out immediately which is true, but the OP's already banged his head against that particular wall. The £55 grand will probably evaporate anyway.

The parents have no reason not to appoint the OP as attorney, even within their fantasy world where everything the OP's brother is doing is fine. Everyone their age should have an LPoA in place, and the OP is the obvious candidate, as the other son is an ex-bankrupt. (You can appoint a discharged bankrupt as attorney but nonetheless it's a good reason not to.)

The reason creditors aren't knocking on the doors is that the parents are paying the interest.

Whilst I can see your point re theLPA it will take time, according to Govt website it cantake up to 10 weeks to get it registered.

In my humble opinion in this instance time really is money.

I would estimate, maybe wrong that around a grand a week is leaking/disappearing from the funds.

That has to be stopped if there is any chance of a rescue.

There is no reason why the OP's mother can't control it at all.

The main objective is to get control from where it is, once that is done and working then by all means do an LPA and let whoever feels able to do it ,do it but it is not a simple undertaking especially record keeping, also in the case of OP father a Health and Welfare LPA may also be needed. In both cases of LPA medical certification is also needed as I understand it.

Clearly we subscribers are powerless other than to suggest and hope we give OP something if only comfort.

Pollycat

Article50 wrote: »

Whilst I can see your point re theLPA it will take time, according to Govt website it cantake up to 10 weeks to get it registered.

In my humble opinion in this instance time really is money.

I would estimate, maybe wrong that around a grand a week is leaking/disappearing from the funds.

That has to be stopped if there is any chance of a rescue.

There is no reason why the OP's mother can't control it at all.

The main objective is to get control from where it is, once that is done and working then by all means do an LPA and let whoever feels able to do it ,do it but it is not a simple undertaking especially record keeping, also in the case of OP father a Health and Welfare LPA may also be needed. In both cases of LPA medical certification is also needed as I understand it.

Clearly we subscribers are powerless other than to suggest and hope we give OP something if only comfort.

The Mother can stop it.
She doesn't seem to want to.

Rags2riches

Pollycat wrote: »

The Mother can stop it.
She doesn't seem to want to.

I agree.

Its not just bank accounts he has also been known to read through thier emails and can access thier computer freely. He's been known to take away their mobile phones when they need them. My mum has also become very close to his partner who she uses as a means of escape. She asked me to pay for councilling to seek help. She didn't want my brother to see the outgoings, promising she would repay this once she was in control of her accounts.

Taking back control
More recently, she maintains their accounts have been made simpler and he 'only' has access to one of her accounts, giving her a belief she is in control. Co-incidentally this is the one pensions are paid into. Despite this my mum made promises to me which I have been waiting for several months to materialise.

• Taking over control of her accounts.
• Seeking the help of Step Change
• Repaying money to me for councilling once she had control of her accounts.

Ongoing
This leads me to believe she doesn't have any such control over their accounts and is maintaining the status quo, to protect her relationship with his partner and enabling my brother to continue this activity. In the past she has been concerned and bothered and taken some action.