Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Rusty_Shackleton

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

No no Rusty. There's no moving of goalposts with me I'm afraid.

Where is the voice at the ballot box?

Do we influence the choice of commissioner?

Do we get to choose what they will or will not put forward on our behalf?

Even if we did actually get that far, the voice of the majority in this country can be ignored if they so wish by being one of 28 un-elected voices.

Say far right extremism takes power in enough EU states to put forward a law we find appalling. Where's your voice? No vote you make can exact change at the EU level. None. You have been reduced to a mere proposal.

Not sure where i moved the goalposts, id still be interested in an example of what sort of law you think this situation could apply to, but for now:

Voice at the ballot box is MEPs and when you elect your national government they choose the commissioner. If for example Corbyn was PM, you would expect his commissioner would focus on social issues, would be a more left wing voice in the commission etc. so by proxy the 'winning' side of the electorate is represented by the commissioner in the same way as their chosen government. The electorate chooses the commissioner by whatever party they elect to government.

Im not sure what power the government has to direct their commissioner, as theyre a representative not a delegate, but they do have the power to appoint and recall. National governments can also lobby, discuss with other national leaders in the Council etc. So there are ways to get things on to the agenda.

As for the issue that we could end up being ignored, well yes, but thats the case in politics anywhere and everywhere. That's where negotiation and diplomacy come in to play - do you know what guarantees we definitely get ignored by the other 27 commissions? Brexit and losing our commissioner. Even out of the EU we will still be affected by what the commission does, we'll just have less of a voice than now

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

kabayiri wrote: »

This is why we had professional politicians to distill the issues to a level which the average voter could understand.

Except...the remain politicians doing the campaigning didn't appear to be up to the job.

Maybe they are just not that bright

Or maybe they were just too responsible to stoop to the levels that the leave campaign did...

Regardless, I don't think we'll make that mistake next time.

Carl31

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Personal considerations are of no relevance.

It remains a simple fact that some people are less intelligent than others. That's not remotely controversial....

it depends how you measure that intelligence

What did Einstein say about that fish? Just because we generally regard academic acheivement the yard stick in this country, doesnt necessarily make it right

How many well known successes were 'thick' at school? Jamie Oliver, Gordon Ramsey, Alan Sugar to name a few, all multi millionaires and experts in their fields, are they not intelligent?

buglawton

iammumtoone wrote: »

I don't understand why people keep going on about another referendum - do they not grasp it is too late! We have said we are leaving, the EU would not take us back now.

In theory we could have a referendum of whether we accept the deal but what if we say no? then what? the EU are not going to say ok then lets start the negotiations again.

We could have a referendum on whether to accept the deal or no deal but does anyone really think that the general public are qualified to make that decision? I would not like to have that responsibility, it was bad enough having to decide in or out.

Then what..?

Yes we could have a choice

a) Accept a Norwegian style deal that prevents direct trade agreements with new countries and keeps migration rules as they are, with maybe a Cameron-style tweak to those rules.
or
b) Go straight to WTO rules (=no deal)

The public has shown good horse-sense once and could do it again.

Carl31

There could be another referendum, how many have ireland had? and been ignored on?

I think it would be political suicide in this country though

Thrugelmir

Carl31 wrote: »

There could be another referendum, how many have ireland had? and been ignored on?

I think it would be political suicide in this country though

Reentry would need to negotiated.

Be a hard sell.

Rusty_Shackleton

I dont think they'll be another referendum, but it's entirely possible it could become politically popular to remain.

If the economy tanks enough that people are getting substantially poorer, while the EU continues steady growth, people will care only about their jobs and wealth, and the referendum will practically be forgotten. It just depends what and how much pain is felt between now and 2019, but if its sufficient enough to definitively turn public opinion against brexit, who the hell is really going to tell people they should lose their jobs/homes/businesses and be much poorer on the basis of a vote a number of years ago.

*disclaimer for the usual brexiter suspects that will jump on what im saying above: Im not saying that this will happen, just that there are possible scenarios where the population could en masse say to hell with the referendum and brexit, and the government would then feel safe to remain.

lush_walrus

Joeskeppi wrote: »

Why put the decision in the hands of morons who don't know what the EU is? I hate this obsession with referendums.

So, the whole of society, other than politicians, are morons who do not know what the EU is? I presume you might view the opposing politicians as morons too? then those who are in the party of your choice but with opposing views, I imagine those would be morons also - so who is left?

Arklight

U.K. humiliated on the world stage. Cut out of global policy making.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-influence-theresa-may-refugee-migration-crisis-eu-paris-macron-a7924671.html

HPC_Ghuol_Hunter

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Nothing to suggest this so far. Recent events have merely added vindication to Mrs May's original comments.

Her original comments as an pre-vote remainer or a post-vote opportunist nutjob? Big difference.