Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

GreatApe

posh*spice wrote: »

It has to be true to be honest. If all these extra workers were adding to the value of the economy in the way that Remainers say, we should be drowning in tax income to pay for extra infrastructure, hospitals, schools, etc.

We're not.

That's not how it works, the government sets terms and conditions so the country functions. What this means for migration is that with migrants we have a lower retirement age than we would have without them.

Get migration down to zero and we might need to bump the retirement age by 1-2 years more than we other wise would do.

But there will be a limit to that, after that point it will be a question of fewer migrants equals higher taxes and lower spending.

Perhaps more importantly, the migrants push the locals up the work food chain. The brits dont wipe old peoples bums and gut fish because we have better prospects. Had we not had migrants over the last 20 years the bits would not have had those better prospects our own kids would have had to pick the strawberries and gutted the fish and been paid low wages and given low status for the work

posh*spice

I will never forget how the likes of Hamish and Moby destroyed my kids lives.

One welsh one scottish - just saying :-)

Moby

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/09/21/may-humiliated-on-world-stage-as-brexit-bites
We are an embarrassment.

CKhalvashi

posh*spice wrote: »

Ok two year transitional period : that takes us to 2021. A year before the next election in 2022.

I'm ok with that.

I very much doubt that

But it's good you're happy about something.

cogito

posh*spice wrote: »

60 billion quid does anyone really think the EU are gonna be happy with that?

They are like the m afia

Sopraonos eat your heart out.

We have nothingin common with these people?

They are worse than the mob. Nothing we offer will satisfy them.

Look at the Ireland border issue. We were asked for imaginative solutions and offered them. Verhofstadt rejected them and said that we caused the problem and must solve it. This is the kind of thing that we have to deal with every time we sit down with these people.

Anyone who doubts that should read Varoufakis 'Adults in the Room'

gfplux

Politico say the speech has already been shared.
Barnier is due to give a reply to her speech this afternoon so they will not be off the cuff remarks but will have been crafted overnight.

"May’s Day (yesterday): After squaring off her cabinet, the prime minister ran the contents of the speech past Jean-Claude Juncker and Irish PM Leo Varadkar last night, the Times’ Francis Elliott reports in an entertaining write-through of the day."

RENAISSANCE WOMAN: In a 14th-century church in the Italian city of Florence, at around 2.15 p.m. U.K. time, Theresa May will today make her grand offer to Europe. Her 5,000-word speech on Brexit has already won the backing of her warring cabinet. She must now win over the rest of Europe too.

Brexit delayed: May will call for a two-year transition deal which effectively delays the reality of Brexit until 2021, POLITICO’s Tom McTague reports. Officials with knowledge of her proposals say her plan amounts to a de-facto grace period where EU law remains in place for two more years after March 2019 — complete with full EU budget payments, European Court of Justice oversight and the free of movement of people.

May’s big offer: In addition to the transition deal, May will also make a substantial offer on EU citizens’ rights, the FT’s Alex Barker reports. Barker says that rather than simply transpose their rights into domestic law, they could be enshrined in Britain’s final exit treaty so U.K. courts are forever bound by the agreement.

Charm offensive: May has already put noses out of joint in Florence by keeping local and national officials out of the loop, POLITICO’s Giulia Paravicini reports. A senior official in the Florence city administration said No. 10 had not followed the usual diplomatic norms and failed to include city officials in any of the logistics.


I wonder why she has to go to Florence to deliver a speech to TV cameras.

System

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

*sigh* indeed.
You appear not to understand; the statement is fact, not opinion.
Therefore it looks like you are the one needing taught the difference because the following clearly states

It's my last try; after that you're on your own.

It's an opinion that rules have been broken. Calling it a fact doesn't make it one. It's really not that difficult.

A conclusion built on an opinion stated as fact is a logical fallacy of some sort. Go look it up.

System

posh*spice wrote: »

I will never forget how the likes of Hamish and Moby destroyed my kids lives.

One welsh one scottish - just saying :-)

Children's lives are impacted somewhat more by their parents than anything else. Especially so in a rich, stable country like the UK.

My kids are doing just fine. Just sayin..

Take a look in the mirror.

System

cogito wrote: »

Look at the Ireland border issue. We were asked for imaginative solutions and offered them. Verhofstadt rejected them and said that we caused the problem and must solve it. This is the kind of thing that we have to deal with every time we sit down with these people.

'We' don't sit down with these people. The UK negotiating team sit with them and rogue cabinet members shout across the channel to stick their oar in. The EU have the luxury of claiming they don't understand the UK's position. Hopefully yesterday and today will be a step towards removing that opt out for them.

Specifically on the Irish border. EU rules on borders have been known for years, they were clear at the time of the referendum and nothing much has changed since. I have some sympathy with the EU - I think the onus on the Irish border is on the UK/ Ireland.

EU citizens rights. Similar logic - the onus should be on the EU. If you think it isn't that's a weakness in the UK negotiating position.

Moby

I wonder if the people who voted leave realised how much it is going to cost them? The 20 billion euros down payment is just the start. Perhaps Angela Merkel will ride to our rescue after her victory on Sunday....that would be ironic wouldn't it!

Fact is we have absolutely no idea what we are doing! There are huge divisions in the tory party but they are trying to keep a lid on them out of self interest at the cost of the British people. Just like they held the referendum out of self interest because of the threat from UKIP.