Land Registry questions

Confusedwombat

I recently purchased a new build home, my solicitor has been terrible so decided to pay and sent off my SDLT1 form myself and have now gotten my SDLT5 Land Transaction Certificate, what do I need to do with this certificate? Do I send it to Land Registry? If so do I need to send anything else with it? Thanks!

G_M

The SDLT5 should be included with the submission to the Land Registry of the TR1 (or TP1), and AP1, which is the application to register the property in your name.

Your solicitor will have the TR1/TP1 signed by you and the seller, hence your solicitor normally submits these all together.

Either send the SDLT5 to your solicitor, or obtain the TR1/TP1 + AP1 (+ID1) from your solicitor and submit all together to the LR. (I suggest the former!)

Are you sure your solicitor has not submitted a SDLT return to HMRC along with (duplicate) payment (assuming payment was due)?

Bishwa

Hi,

I have a question for the Land Registry Office. For more than a year I am struggling to get my application get completed on the commercial lease. I bought a restaurant last year on 09 Aug 18 (Not the actual property). The rule states that if the lease is more than 7 years old than we have to register with the Land Registry. Basically we are just a tenant but still need to pay stamp duty each time the lease gets sold.

In 2014, the first person who bought the lease but did not complete the Land Registration for unknown reason (Maybe he tried many times then just couldn’t be asked anymore due to the long processing time). He sold the business to another guy in 2016. The second guy also tried to complete the registration but was unsuccessful many times so he didn’t even bother wasting his time. They both thought that Land Registry was just like a waste of time and why should they waste their time trying to pay Stamp Duty if the Land Registry Office is not even processing smoothly and they are just the Tenant ( not the Landlord).

I bought the restaurant on 09 Aug 18. My solicitor lodged the application on 10 Aug 18 as well as the seller’s lawyer did the same for him. I was told by your office that my application would be on hold till the seller’s application is completed. The seller’s lawyer was told that the first guy who bought the lease in 2014 needs to complete the SDLT. I pushed the seller to get it done by hook or crook or I would take him and his solicitor to the court. The seller went around East London to look for the first guy and begged him to complete the SDLT form.

Now everything was paid and completed on Jan 19 and all the documents was sent to your office. It is now 16 Sep 19. Still waiting for the previous owner’s application to be completed. I contacted your office in a timely manner and was told that it’s pending and should not take long time.

At the very moment there is bigger problem caused by this whole situation. I am on the process of selling my restaurant and it took more than three months to reach to the final stage of the sales completion. The new buyer’s wants to see the Land Registry document before executing the final sales document. I have explained him the whole situation but I would doubt he will believe it. This is a big problem for me.

My advice to your department is that “ If your department is lacking staff plus you guys have backlog of tasks that requires to be completed then why not revoke this rule for all commercial lease to register with the Land Registry unless the buy the actual property. That will save lots of time and loads of tasks will get completed. People like me won’t have problem buying or selling. The genuine home buyers will get more chances to get their application get completed at the right time. Or else it will just be burden for everyone.” Just a normal guy’s advice.

Anyway when can I expect to hear about my application to be completed. I am adamant on getting this application completed without giving up like previous owners.

da_rule

Bishwa wrote: »

Hi,

I have a question for the Land Registry Office. For more than a year I am struggling to get my application get completed on the commercial lease. I bought a restaurant last year on 09 Aug 18 (Not the actual property). The rule states that if the lease is more than 7 years old than we have to register with the Land Registry. Basically we are just a tenant but still need to pay stamp duty each time the lease gets sold.

In 2014, the first person who bought the lease but did not complete the Land Registration for unknown reason (Maybe he tried many times then just couldn’t be asked anymore due to the long processing time). He sold the business to another guy in 2016. The second guy also tried to complete the registration but was unsuccessful many times so he didn’t even bother wasting his time. They both thought that Land Registry was just like a waste of time and why should they waste their time trying to pay Stamp Duty if the Land Registry Office is not even processing smoothly and they are just the Tenant ( not the Landlord).

I bought the restaurant on 09 Aug 18. My solicitor lodged the application on 10 Aug 18 as well as the seller’s lawyer did the same for him. I was told by your office that my application would be on hold till the seller’s application is completed. The seller’s lawyer was told that the first guy who bought the lease in 2014 needs to complete the SDLT. I pushed the seller to get it done by hook or crook or I would take him and his solicitor to the court. The seller went around East London to look for the first guy and begged him to complete the SDLT form.

Now everything was paid and completed on Jan 19 and all the documents was sent to your office. It is now 16 Sep 19. Still waiting for the previous owner’s application to be completed. I contacted your office in a timely manner and was told that it’s pending and should not take long time.

At the very moment there is bigger problem caused by this whole situation. I am on the process of selling my restaurant and it took more than three months to reach to the final stage of the sales completion. The new buyer’s wants to see the Land Registry document before executing the final sales document. I have explained him the whole situation but I would doubt he will believe it. This is a big problem for me.

My advice to your department is that “ If your department is lacking staff plus you guys have backlog of tasks that requires to be completed then why not revoke this rule for all commercial lease to register with the Land Registry unless the buy the actual property. That will save lots of time and loads of tasks will get completed. People like me won’t have problem buying or selling. The genuine home buyers will get more chances to get their application get completed at the right time. Or else it will just be burden for everyone.” Just a normal guy’s advice.

Anyway when can I expect to hear about my application to be completed. I am adamant on getting this application completed without giving up like previous owners.

Firstly, it’s not a ‘rule’, it’s the law. So, you’ll need to approach your MP if you want that changed. But they appear to have bigger issues at the moment.

If the matter needs to be resolved, because, for example, there is a risk of you losing a sale, the person who lodged the application (i.e. your solicitor) can make a request for the application to be expedited.

Land_Registry

Bishwa wrote: »

I have a question for the Land Registry Office. For more than a year I am struggling to get my application get completed on the commercial lease. I bought a restaurant last year on 09 Aug 18 (Not the actual property). The rule states that if the lease is more than 7 years old than we have to register with the Land Registry. Basically we are just a tenant but still need to pay stamp duty each time the lease gets sold.

In 2014, the first person who bought the lease but did not complete the Land Registration for unknown reason (Maybe he tried many times then just couldn’t be asked anymore due to the long processing time). He sold the business to another guy in 2016. The second guy also tried to complete the registration but was unsuccessful many times so he didn’t even bother wasting his time. They both thought that Land Registry was just like a waste of time and why should they waste their time trying to pay Stamp Duty if the Land Registry Office is not even processing smoothly and they are just the Tenant ( not the Landlord).

I bought the restaurant on 09 Aug 18. My solicitor lodged the application on 10 Aug 18 as well as the seller’s lawyer did the same for him. I was told by your office that my application would be on hold till the seller’s application is completed. The seller’s lawyer was told that the first guy who bought the lease in 2014 needs to complete the SDLT. I pushed the seller to get it done by hook or crook or I would take him and his solicitor to the court. The seller went around East London to look for the first guy and begged him to complete the SDLT form.

Now everything was paid and completed on Jan 19 and all the documents was sent to your office. It is now 16 Sep 19. Still waiting for the previous owner’s application to be completed. I contacted your office in a timely manner and was told that it’s pending and should not take long time.

At the very moment there is bigger problem caused by this whole situation. I am on the process of selling my restaurant and it took more than three months to reach to the final stage of the sales completion. The new buyer’s wants to see the Land Registry document before executing the final sales document. I have explained him the whole situation but I would doubt he will believe it. This is a big problem for me.

My advice to your department is that “ If your department is lacking staff plus you guys have backlog of tasks that requires to be completed then why not revoke this rule for all commercial lease to register with the Land Registry unless the buy the actual property. That will save lots of time and loads of tasks will get completed. People like me won’t have problem buying or selling. The genuine home buyers will get more chances to get their application get completed at the right time. Or else it will just be burden for everyone.” Just a normal guy’s advice.

Anyway when can I expect to hear about my application to be completed. I am adamant on getting this application completed without giving up like previous owners.

Firstly there’s nothing I can comment on re your application as you have not provided any specific details - what’s the title number and case reference?

Secondly we do have a backlog of certain types of work and it affects us all. It’s not what we want either but it should not stop the conveyancing process completely and it reads as if there are a myriad of other issues involved as well preventing registration.

I don’t want to pick a fight over them until I know more but in general terms and based solely on your comments, the following may help although ultimately registration is what counts.

The law requires leases over 7 years in length to be registered to protect the tenant’s interest. It used to be only much longer terms but the law has been changed over the decades. We don’t make the law.

HMRC deal with SDLT

Processing times don’t stop you applying to register, either in 2014 or now. In 2014 you don’t know why it wasn’t registered but it’s not because it may take too long.

If he didn’t manage to register it then it seems very odd tha5 he managed to sell it on in 2016 as he wasn’t the registered legal owner.
You register to confirm your legal ownership and to enable you to then also sell/mortgage etc so I’m unclear as to why that is a ‘waste of time’.

The purchased lease is for the benefit if the tenant. It follows that they would register it. The waste of time appears to apply to the failure of the previous tenants/owners and their solicitors to make a suitable application to register but without specific details that’s unclear

So in 2018 your seller tried to register the lease and his purchase and you did the same knowing that your’s could only succeed if his did. Hence the advice given.
Unfortunately the 2014 details were incomplete for your seller’s seller but it took several months to resolve before you were able to submit them. That’s a long time but clearly not helped by two sales when nothing had been paid to HMRC or correctly registered

Whilst we do have a backlog it doesn’t extend from Jan until now so I can only assume that the matters have not been resolved, at least re the registration requirements of the earlier sale/purchase

So I suspect the application has been considered but we need more from the applicant. The details will help clarify that but we waste a lot of time dealing with incomplete and poorly lodged applications but the vast majority get there in the end once complete.

Selling the lease on will be a huge problem as it was never registered. The new buyer right wants proof you own it. That seems to me at least to have more to do with the failure if previous owners to register their lease. Yes delays in considering an application can effect timings but they don’t change whether an application is sufficient to be registered. That’s down to the seller/buyer and solicitors involved. Delays at our end don’t change those requirements.

And if there is an urgency then we can expedite it but if it’s not registerable then we can’t complete it. That all depends on the seller/purchaser and solicitors. So it’s all about the quality of the application at this point and the delay in satisfying the registration requirements. The delay our end can indeed impact but not in the way suggested. And I’m not sure how recruiting more people would help you resolve the issues you now face in registering your purchase when your seller has failed to register their own unless you are suggesting it’s not been considered at our end since January. Is that the case here?

If you can get the title number/case reference from your solicitor then I can check and hopefully offer some advice as to how we’ve arrived at this point and what happens next inc timescales
It would be interesting to read what advice your solicitor has provided also re the issues now faced?

Nichola112

Hello, any update on the above? When we speak to LR we are getting told different information and always for call back on a Wednesday when our case worker is in, we’ve been told 65 days and 15 days notice so were not sure. Do they only work Wednesdays? Have you got all requisitions from our solicitor? If we don’t get anywhere out onward sale is going back on the market this week. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Nichola

Land_Registry

Nichola112 wrote: »

Hello, any update on the above? When we speak to LR we are getting told different information and always for call back on a Wednesday when our case worker is in, we’ve been told 65 days and 15 days notice so were not sure. Do they only work Wednesdays? Have you got all requisitions from our solicitor? If we don’t get anywhere out onward sale is going back on the market this week. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Nichola

I’ll deal with the actual application first as it is only today that a further reply has been received from the lodging solicitor. That reply will be considered ASAP

You are already aware that a survey was required as the application includes a claim as to ownership. The survey and solicitor’s replies all feed onto the complexity of the application and adds to the ‘registration hoops’ it has to go through.

Even with expedition those hoops take time to clear and I can see we have had a number of progress enquiries.

The next stage or indeed hoop is very likely to be wider checks, which include the notices you refer to. We won’t know which will be required until the replies mentioned have been considered. And I very much suspect that notices will be served which will mean the application won’t be completed this week.

The record also refers to our explaining that such checks can be foreshortened if recipients respond swiftly. Equally timescales can be extended when objections are raised.

And as far as Wednesdays are concerned at the time of the last noted call on 13th Sept it was explained that a reply was still awaited and that the caseworker would pick up on anything received (arrived today) on Wednesday (tomorrow)

I do appreciate that the current situation is a stressful one and that all parties are trying to just get the chain completed. However you have a complex registration issue to be resolved which relies on a variety of parties. The lodging solicitor should be fully aware of the current position.

Nichola112

Thank you, I appreciate that it won’t be completed this week they just want some timescale as they are getting pressure from their own ward too about it and said if we get no sort of answers tomorrow they are pulling out? How long have you been waiting for your last request from our solicitor? We’ve spoken to next door who have no problems with the proposed plans.
Thankyou for your reply.
Nichola

Land_Registry

Nichola112 wrote: »

Thank you, I appreciate that it won’t be completed this week they just want some timescale as they are getting pressure from their own ward too about it and said if we get no sort of answers tomorrow they are pulling out? How long have you been waiting for your last request from our solicitor? We’ve spoken to next door who have no problems with the proposed plans.
Thankyou for your reply.
Nichola

The last request was on the 11th

Nichola112

Thankyou. Hopefully the case worker can update us more tomorrow once they’ve looked at it. Thankyou for your responses.
Kind regards
Nichola