Land Registry questions

sueby78

Hi land registry and anyone else that can help with advice,

We are 20 weeks into buying a property it has a right of way caution logged on deeds from 2001 but the property itself is not registered to current owners who have owned in 30+ years.
The right of way caution is from a lady who inherited some farm fields at the back of the property so we haven’t got an issue with that and the right of way hasn’t actually been used for the whole time the property has been owned by seller, I’m guessing she inherited fields and was advised to stake claim to ROW.
We are happy for her to keep her right of way it doesn’t affect us and the property is going to be our forever home so we are in no way contesting the ROW.

Our issue is our solicitors told us 12 weeks go that after sale has gone through we can register property then.
At week 19 they have now said the sellers have to have the charge removed otherwise the title plans will not be registered to us and our solicitors have said they will refuse to register the sale if they do not remove charge.
We just want this sale to go through on our dream house and relocate which has been delayed massively already but we are so confused about this caution as we can’t find any definitive answers. I think I’ve nearly become a qualified conveyancer the amount of law I’ve read 😂🤯

But basically if we complete this sale can we register title deeds after the sale with this caution in place and sort what needs to be done with charge if anything after? The sellers solicitors have basically said our solicitors have had all info since mid June so why now is this an issue and if to apply to have the caution removed it could take months if the lady who placed the caution objects. They are ready to pull the sale.

Many thanks for any advice in advance 🙏

Land_Registry

Mswinkle wrote: »

thank you for getting back to me. With my mother’s age and the fact she will lose a more suitable home where she has a strong community, this is very distressing.

The council although they had subdivided the house never changed the title to reflect that. The council title is SGL221852. When my mother bought her property it was freehold, I think fee absolute and the council sent a change certificate reflecting that. However, on the SGL221852 my mother’s property is referred to as a flat, which it isn’t, and the council title looks like they still own the entire property.

My mum’s title was spun off into SGL434632. I have no reason why it was described in this way. for example the area tinted blue describes the totally of the house so there was no reason for it to be colored.

my understanding under Land Registration Act is that The Chief Land Registrar shall, for the purpose of the registration of title, accept such a certificate as sufficient evidence of the facts stated in it; but if as a result he has to meet a claim against him under the [F2Land Registration Act 2002] the landlord is liable to indemnify him. In this case the council was the landlord and mistakes were made in creation of the new title and in amending the SGL221852.

My mum’s solicitor seems to think it will take months and several thousand pounds to resolve this. Which, on so many levels is a nightmare and not something a 90 year old so be dealing with at this point in her life

Thank you so much for your help

Firstly there’s no application with us to amend either title.

Secondly SGL434632 as removed from he Council title in 1985 and is registered freehold. It’s not referred to as a Flat on the register. However it does refer to certain floor levels emergence by pink, yellow and blue on its title plan. These appear to match the plans included in the 1985 Transfer referred to on the title.

The Council title does use the word ‘Flat’ to describe how part of it has been removed under the SGL434632 title. Whilst that might cause a question to be asked by a buyer I’d be surprised as it’s the SGL434632 they are looking at and not the Council’s title.

However that can’t be the sole issue here and I’m assuming your concern is that the 1985 Transfer and therefore title does not match the reality on the ground - if that is correct then the error seems to be in that 1985 Transfer by the Council to your Mum (and Father?)

Is that correct?

Land_Registry

sueby78 wrote: »

Hi land registry and anyone else that can help with advice,

We are 20 weeks into buying a property it has a right of way caution logged on deeds from 2001 but the property itself is not registered to current owners who have owned in 30+ years.
The right of way caution is from a lady who inherited some farm fields at the back of the property so we haven’t got an issue with that and the right of way hasn’t actually been used for the whole time the property has been owned by seller, I’m guessing she inherited fields and was advised to stake claim to ROW.
We are happy for her to keep her right of way it doesn’t affect us and the property is going to be our forever home so we are in no way contesting the ROW.

Our issue is our solicitors told us 12 weeks go that after sale has gone through we can register property then.
At week 19 they have now said the sellers have to have the charge removed otherwise the title plans will not be registered to us and our solicitors have said they will refuse to register the sale if they do not remove charge.
We just want this sale to go through on our dream house and relocate which has been delayed massively already but we are so confused about this caution as we can’t find any definitive answers. I think I’ve nearly become a qualified conveyancer the amount of law I’ve read 😂🤯

But basically if we complete this sale can we register title deeds after the sale with this caution in place and sort what needs to be done with charge if anything after? The sellers solicitors have basically said our solicitors have had all info since mid June so why now is this an issue and if to apply to have the caution removed it could take months if the lady who placed the caution objects. They are ready to pull the sale.

Many thanks for any advice in advance 🙏

The timing of completion is entirely a matter for you and your conveyancer. And crucially your lender if you have one - they may be the reason for the late delay.

Historically buying an unregistered title was not a major issue. After all they were all unregistered once. But times have changed and people, including conveyancer sand lenders require different things nowadays to minimalise risk.

So whilst you may well be able to complete and sort things out afterwards your conveyancer and/or lender may see that as a risk they are not willing to accept. Different conveyancer sand/or lenders may view the risk differently but it’s your conveyancer and/or lender you need to resolve this with.

happyandcontented

I wonder if you can help with this query please?

Our title deeds show that we own the land to the centre line of the unadopted road in front of our property.

Next door own the same with their own frontage, however we are both leaseholders.

Next door is in the process of selling and an issue with the leasehold of the frontage from the pavement end to the centre line of the road has come up.They have asked to buy the leasehold but been told there are other interested parties.

We believe that the council is trying to buy the leasehold as we have been in dispute with them over a permit parking zone on our land.

My question is: given that we have a legal right to buy the leasehold and we have lived here for 34 years would that automatically include land shown as 'highway' (which is unadopted)but which is on our deeds as being owned by us?

Could the council legally split the freehold title to the land our house is built on and the frontage?

What land rights do we have?

Thank you.

Mswinkle

Thank you for getting back to me.

Yes, it seems the reality on the ground does not match the transfer given by the council. We contacted their legal department directly and it seems they will only send a surveyor that they approve to measure, which could take weeks, and they will only deal with our solicitor, not us, which could run several thousand pounds. As after the surveyor the title will have to amended, approved and then filed.

This was obviously a mistake on their part, yet it will take months to rectify, cost several thousand and my mum will lose the sale. my mum is so distressed so any thoughts on how we might speed this up? It is possible we could sue but that could be bogged down for years. in the meantime they are refusing to deal with us directly and will only work with our solicitor and the bills could really rack up.

Scooby74

Hi I wonder if you can advise on the progress of the following case: LBCB71B trans number HP833307.

I am selling my late mothers house and have had a buyer since 1st July. I purchased the leasehold from the council which was completed on 23rd May but my solicitor says I can’t complete the sale until the lease has been registered which could take months. I have waited over 4 months already and the buyer is not very happy. Solicitor is unhelpful and reluctant to chase up what is happening. I am finding it all very stressful especially as I am still grieving.
Any help in understanding where the case is and how much longer will really be appreciated.

Land_Registry

Scooby74 wrote: »

Hi I wonder if you can advise on the progress of the following case: LBCB71B trans number HP833307.

I am selling my late mothers house and have had a buyer since 1st July. I purchased the leasehold from the council which was completed on 23rd May but my solicitor says I can’t complete the sale until the lease has been registered which could take months. I have waited over 4 months already and the buyer is not very happy. Solicitor is unhelpful and reluctant to chase up what is happening. I am finding it all very stressful especially as I am still grieving.
Any help in understanding where the case is and how much longer will really be appreciated.

The application was submitted at the end of May. We have a backlog of this type of work and I would not expect it to be considered for some weeks yet.
However in cases of 'urgency' we can consider expediting the process if the lodging solicitor asks us to do so and provides documentary evidence to demonstrate the urgency. If you have a confirmed buyer then they should have a document to confirm that which they can submit with their request.
In the circumstances I would suggest contacting your solicitor and asking them to submit the request and evidence asap
If we can expedite it then this will usually mean that it is considered within 10 working days and if all in order registered

Land_Registry

happyandcontented wrote: »

I wonder if you can help with this query please?

Our title deeds show that we own the land to the centre line of the unadopted road in front of our property.

Next door own the same with their own frontage, however we are both leaseholders.

Next door is in the process of selling and an issue with the leasehold of the frontage from the pavement end to the centre line of the road has come up.They have asked to buy the leasehold but been told there are other interested parties.

We believe that the council is trying to buy the leasehold as we have been in dispute with them over a permit parking zone on our land.

My question is: given that we have a legal right to buy the leasehold and we have lived here for 34 years would that automatically include land shown as 'highway' (which is unadopted)but which is on our deeds as being owned by us?

Could the council legally split the freehold title to the land our house is built on and the frontage?

What land rights do we have?

Thank you.

I'm afraid that's not something we can help you with as it is legal advice you need here. Sorry

Land_Registry

Mswinkle wrote: »

Thank you for getting back to me.

Yes, it seems the reality on the ground does not match the transfer given by the council. We contacted their legal department directly and it seems they will only send a surveyor that they approve to measure, which could take weeks, and they will only deal with our solicitor, not us, which could run several thousand pounds. As after the surveyor the title will have to amended, approved and then filed.

This was obviously a mistake on their part, yet it will take months to rectify, cost several thousand and my mum will lose the sale. my mum is so distressed so any thoughts on how we might speed this up? It is possible we could sue but that could be bogged down for years. in the meantime they are refusing to deal with us directly and will only work with our solicitor and the bills could really rack up.

So your Mum occupies more land/property than was transferred at the time
If so you have two options it seems. The first being to ask the Council to sort it out or to look at your own claim as to ownership of the extra land/property/

A key point to consider here is that they/you are not going to be able to rectify the Transfer itself as that has been registered. If they agree that it was wrong then it seems likely that they would have to transfer the extra now.

If you go down the route of claiming the extra then your Mother will have to provide a statutory declaration or statement of truth to support such a claim. The Council would then be asked to consent or object as appropriate.

Either way I would strongly recommend speaking to a solicitor as to what your options are and the best one to follow. That may be based on cost but should also be based on time, energy, stress and crucially the legal position.

NeverTooLate

Apologies if this has been answered before, I searched and couldn't find it.


I want to do a voluntary registration of a property for a family member. The property was purchased in 1960 and has no mortgage on it and we have the deeds.


Is this something I can do myself, or do I need a solicitor to do it for me?