The illogical proof of address system: is it really required by law?

SouthLondonUser

It would be interesting to see what kind of legal opinion Monzo got in order to be comfortable with verification via the app and not with proofs of address.

jonesMUFCforever

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

I need to submit my bank statements to prove my salary, my expenses, etc. In a mortgage application. My broker tells me some lenders do not let applicants use bank statements as proof of address because bank statements are already used for this other purpose.

May I suggest that this broker is talking out of his backside.

SouthLondonUser

Please do

eskbanker

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what kind of legal opinion Monzo got in order to be comfortable with verification via the app and not with proofs of address.

It would appear that your line of argument is that if Monzo has a lesser level of verification than this must be legal and compliant with regulations so everyone else should be able to do the same as well?

However, as per an earlier post, with a tiny controlled exception, their offering is a prepaid card and so doesn't involve provision of credit facilities or much realistic prospect of fraud or compliance with FSCS ("Once we launch current accounts, your money will be fully protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS)"), etc, which (I believe) will entail higher standards and tighter controls once relevant.

Ultimately any institution needs to take a view about how much risk they're prepared to accept (within the constraints of laws and regulations) and it's hardly surprising that, after the events of the last ten years, the majority view is to err on the side of caution. You may indeed see this as a bureaucratic inconvenience but for everyone seeing it that way there will be many others feeling reassured that security levels are appropriate.

bazzyb

boo_star wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on the other parts of this post but I wouldn't even consider opening a financial product with a company that wants a video record of me acting like a corporate shill, or even wants a video at all.

Are you sure that they don't own the rights to use your "verification" video in their future advertising?

If somebody asked for your driving licence or passport as proof of identity, would you expect them to use that in their future advertising? This ID check will be exactly the same.

More and more organisations are doing checks like this now, for example some organisations will request a 'selfie' of an applicant holding their photo ID - but even this can be doctored if somebody knows a thing or two about photoshop. A video is a great way for the organisation to wipe out identity fraud in my opinion as it would be extremely difficult (impossible?) to fake.

SouthLondonUser

eskbanker wrote: »

It would appear that your line of argument is that if Monzo has a lesser level of verification than this must be legal and compliant with regulations so everyone else should be able to do the same as well?

Oh, dear, I really cannot seem to be able to explain myself, can I?

I don't think Monzo's is a lesser system of verification; quite the opposite: not only is it less of a hassle, it is also much much safer and harder to cheat, IMHO, for all the reasons I have already explained.

Sure, Monzo's current system does not verify the current address. Nor do most banks in most of continental Europe; like I said, is fraud 10 times more common in continental Europe because of this?

Could you please explain why Monzo's is a lesser system, please, and what additional security you get from the Bizantine proofs of address?

pinkdalek

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

@boo_star , The question was not whether you are happy with the proof of address system, or whether you would apply to Monzo. The question was whether demanding proof of address is a legal requirement, or simply a convention applied by all except the challenger banks. Does any one know? Is there any one with a legal or compliance background?

@JonesMUFCf , not everything is online, but many things are. At least for us. Many companies charge extra if you want paper bills, which, by the way, I wouldn't want unless they were needed for this Bizantine proof of address system.
In our case:

• we receive no benefits whatsoever;
• the council tax bill is older than 3 months, so won't be accepted, but the council sends it annually only;
• the water bill is older than 3 months but we haven't received the new one yet;
• gas and electricity are online only;
• we have bank statements, but we cannot use them as proof of address because the lenders use them to verify our expenses: all the lenders I have contacted said so. There might be some lenders who behave differently but I honestly don't have the time to spend 20 more hours in call centre hell to find out.
• we should be able to get a paper credit card statement (I'll call the bank today) but we need another proof of address, and we have no idea where to get it.

In other words, just because it is straightforward for you doesn't mean it is always straightforward for all...

Council Tax Bills can be accepted if dated within 12 months as they are issued annually, as are benefit/state pension letters.

Gas/Electric are traditionally quarterly billed hence why banks only accept ones dated in 3 months. Bank Statements would normally be your most recent one.

Why don't you take on the government and the FCA yourself and devise up a better way for banks and other organisations to verify oneself.

Most banks by the way will accept a UK passport or photocard driving licence as single ID if applying for products.

If you have no benefits then surely you would be in receipt of a PAYE Notification letter from HMRC which can be accepted by most banks as ID. If not guess what if you contact them they will send you one! amazing thing communication.

Majority of applicants get verified electronically via credit check, voters roll. If you are not happy with the current company as they are so old fashioned as you seem to say then go somewhere else.

Maybe it's time the country forced us to have national ID cards. But no doubt they will be open to fraudsters and more panic stirring from our friends at the Daily Mail and Express.

YorkshireBoy

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

Council tax: not accepted because older than 3 months.

You've mentioned this twice now. Many (most/all?) councils will send a duplicate bill if requested, just like HMRC will send a duplicate notice of tax coding if requested.


Doesn't answer your legal compliance question, but at least you now know you do have other options available to you.

SouthLondonUser

pinkdalek wrote: »

Why don't you take on the government and the FCA yourself and devise up a better way for banks and other organisations to verify oneself.

Only it's not an explicit government requirement, is it? This was the question, even though 90% of the posts have been off-topic.

pinkdalek wrote: »

If not guess what if you contact them they will send you one! amazing thing communication.

In the world in which you live, yes, it is really amazing, because evidently you live in a world where you can easily make personal phone calls while at work, which, by the way, last little because you don't have to waste hours in call centre hell listening to beautiful jingles. the world in which I live happens to be somewhat different. But, again, none of this is on-topic, because, again, the question has never been: "how do I get hold of proofs of address for my remortgage application?".

pinkdalek wrote: »

Maybe it's time the country forced us to have national ID cards. But no doubt they will be open to fraudsters and more panic stirring from our friends at the Daily Mail and Express.

100% security does not exist. How is the continental European, ID-card-based system more vulnerable than ours?

YorkshireBoy

Back on topic...

This got me thinking: is this Bizantine system of requiring proof of address really a legal or regulatory requirement, or is it just a convention? If it were a legal requirement, I'd expect more consistency over what kind of documents are accepted and what are not.

It's a "legal requirement", according to at least 5 financial institutions (found by a quick google search). There may be more, but 5 saying the same thing on the first page or so is good enough for me.