The illogical proof of address system: is it really required by law?

SouthLondonUser

You mean you can get a PROVISIONAL driving licence without learning to drive. But you still need to meet certain medical requirements (eg eyesight).

SouthLondonUser

Also, many employers require proofs of address before signing an employment contract. Employment contract, not giving credit. This is unheard of in continental Europe. Yet AFAIK frauds are not 10 times more common in the continent...

Uxb

SouthLondonUser wrote: »

Paradoxically, in the US there are no ID cards, but there is a social security number, which uniquely identifies every individual, and which people guard with their life precisely because having access to it can make fraud and identity theft all too easy.
AFAIK there is no single number or code, in the Western European countries (I am not familiar with Eastern Europe) which use ID cards, which is as comparable to the American social security.

Surely we in the UK have our National Insurance number - which is pretty well the same thing?

For me having to supply original address ID plus certified copy of passport is pretty regular ---- I just have the stuff ready on file.
As follows:
1. Some accounts on opening require this to be sent - some now manage electronically: All fairly random.
2. Account made dormant after long non use by building society- to re-activate it I had to supply by post the full ID set. They rejected the first lot as the certification was 'too long ago'. So I had to get the same passport re-certified.
3. Wanted to make a transaction on a long held OEIC investment. No ID to current standard held on file by the financial group so full paper ID set to be provided before transaction could be processed.
4. Renew my ticket at the public record office/national archives in London. Attend in person with old ticket, passport and original address ID - stand in queue with lots of other people all with the same ID documents.
5. (This is an odd one I agree). Wanted a postal re-direct for a deceased relative as I'm executor. Postal form requires death cert plus original address ID of the deceased plus my full paper ID of passport and original
address ID document for myself.
6. Aviation medical exam for recreational flying - just the passport and my CivialAviationAuthority number (which has my address attached to it) as ID was required for this one.

benjus

bazzyb wrote: »

No you don't.

Granted, it will be the main reason why most people who get a licence choose to do so - but there would be nothing to stop somebody getting a driving licence purely to use as photo ID of they so wished to do so.

Sadly some organisations won't accept a provisional photocard driving licence as ID. For example HSBC will only accept them for under 18s: https://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/contact-and-support/banking-made-easy/help-us-identify-you

I really don't know why, as you have to prove your ID to obtain a provisional photocard driving licence. Why does HSBC care whether or not you passed a driving test?

benjus

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

What does an ID card do that a photo driving licence does not?

As I said in my earlier post, an optional ID card doesn't really do much that a photo driving licence doesn't, except that they would probably be more widely accepted than a provisional driving licence (see above).

A compulsory ID card would be a significant change as everyone would have a unique number that could be used to identify them.

SouthLondonUser

Except that not everyone can / want / should be forced to get a full driving licence. Provisional driving licences are not accepted by all. And people with certain medical conditions cannot get either.

SouthLondonUser

Uxb wrote: »

Surely we in the UK have our National Insurance number - which is pretty well the same thing?

No, it is not. Again, people who comment on topics they are not familiar with end up looking silly.

It is not the same because the social security number is used in a much much wider number of contexts than the national insurance number, which is why having access to someone's ssn makes identity theft so much easier - the same does not apply to NI. Don't take my word for it, do a quick search on social security number and identity theft to see for yourself.

SouthLondonUser

The thread on the Ulster Bank saving account (open to all UK residents)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5668139

is full of stories of people who couldn't open it because the bank requires a photo id, and accepts UK or European passports and EU id cards, but not driving licences issued by the DVLA. It may accept Northern Irish licenses, not sure.

Still, this proves my point just perfectly: the UK relies on a Byzantine system, which is needlessly more complicated than the systems used by our id-card-carrying yet still-subject-to-less-surveillance cousins in continental Europe.

As I have said countless times, not everyone can/wants to pay the money for a new passport; saying that passports or driving licences (which this bank doesn't accept) are not compulsory is misleading, because without one you cannot open a saving account. Sure, you can open a saving account with some other bank, but all my points about the lack of consistency and the incredibly Byzantine system still stand.