BBC Top Story. Diesel & Petrol cars banned from 2040

Nobbie1967

maximania wrote: »

greentransportation.info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html

I think we could post opposing links all day

Thanks for posting that, not sure why you think that opposes what I said, it seems to reinforce the point made in the link.

In short, if we stopped refining petrol, there would not be a massive surplus of electricity to charge EVs. It would contribute a very small % to the requirement.

parking_question_chap

Cornucopia wrote: »

Having access to a pool of ready-charged self-driving cars may well be simpler for a lot of people than arranging their own vehicle, charging point and charging regime.

So basically an electric taxi. :rotfl:

And you are correct they are simpler than arranging their own vehicle.

But who are you expecting to fund this?

The government might be a little strapped for cash if their fuel duy income is removed.

maximania

parking_question_chap wrote: »

Care to post up this "quick calculation"?

What happens on cloudy days? How are you storing all this energy?

Energy storage is the main issue with renewable.

And how about all the energy required to build these replacement cars? And the fossil fuels that are use in the component parts?

Uk Cars average 300 billion miles per year.
Electric car car do about 4.5 miles per Kwhr

So thats 300,000,000,000miles /(4.5miles*365days*24hrs) =7.6Gw

What happens on cloudy days?

Old question - old answer
Cloudy days use wind turbines, Cloudy and Still days use wave turbines or geoplants, Sunny days use solar. Night time use base powerstations that are just wasting heat ticking over.

You dont need to charge every day if you have 200+ mile range. You store the extra electricty in your car battary or old reduced capacity battary packs.

and how about all the energy required to build these replacement cars? And the fossil fuels that are use in the component parts?

Are all new ICE cars built with zero energy and fossil fuel?

50Twuncle

maximania wrote: »

Even a quick calculation shows that if all the petrol cars in the Uk were changed to electric you would only need 8Gw of renewables to supply it. The current Solar and wind farms are twice that capacity already.

The issue of electric demand is just another untruth spread about by the petrol industry. People forget that this is going to happen .. France Germany and a good portion of Europe are all commited to this process.

We kill 40,000 people a year from toxic air pollution..is it time we faced up to that reality?

You cannot be serious - 8GW - ie) 8,0000,0000,000 watts - for 37 million vehicles (at the moment) only allows 216 watts per vehicle - when an electric car currently consumes approx 12kW in 24 hours
You have to allow for at least half of the total at any one time - or face black outs !!
Something tells me that your calculations are wildly out !!
That is assuming that 100% of power used can be trasferred from the grid to batterys - which is not possible ...
Also power out does not equate to power consumed - I doubt whether any electric car is any more than 50% efficient
What about lorries, vans and buses - will they be required to run electric as well - what will they require powerwise ?
Try electric planes - they pollute far more than road vehicles

System

henry24 wrote: »

One thing that I don't understand about pollution is car exhausts used to be black at the end but I drive a 2.2L diesel and the exhaust is as clean after 30000 miles as it was when new.

Probably true, as most modern diesels are fitted with a very efficient but expensive diesel particulate filter. The problem is not latest generation diesels but old taxis, buses and lorries. Any scrapple scheme would target the worst offenders not the latest generation of diesels.

parking_question_chap

maximania wrote: »

Uk Cars average 300 billion miles per year.
Electric car car do about 4.5 miles per Kwhr

So thats 300,000,000,000miles /(4.5miles*365days*24hrs) =7.6Gw

You are assuming 100% of the energy from natural sources makes it into the battery for use, the reality likely to be much lower.

Edit, 50T beat me there.

maximania

Nobbie1967 wrote: »

Thanks for posting that, not sure why you think that opposes what I said, it seems to reinforce the point made in the link..

You didn't read it all...

6 kilowatt-hours of electricity is consumed per gallon of electricity" sure seems plausible

Cornucopia

parking_question_chap wrote: »

So basically an electric taxi. :rotfl:

Without the labour costs.

And you are correct they are simpler than arranging their own vehicle.

I know. :cool:

But who are you expecting to fund this?

The government might be a little strapped for cash if their fuel duy income is removed.

Why would the Government need to fund it? The economics of transport and travel have always been around the subsidy-neutral point, so I don't see why this would be any different. Services like Uber have already shown the potential for growth in the overall market in urban areas, so there are people out there prepared to pay, and if they are not spending £2k-£10k per year on their own cars, they will have cash to spare.

almillar

I don't have all the answers, but there is some rubbish being spouted in here!

Complete BS, just the British Brainwashing Corporation paying their dues to the authorities and golfing buddies in big business.

Government announces no new ICE car sales from 2040. You make it about the BBC. Everyone else is reporting it too. Get a grip!

Will they ban diesel lorries, ships and public transport vehicles as well?
If not, then it is a pointless exercise.

No, but it will reduce the pollution coming out of cars - is that not good?

Are we going to build new power stations to cope with all the extra electricity demands?

No, those demands are overblown, and making the grid, chargers and cars 'smart' will help, along with continued expansion of renewable sources, and local storage.

Batteries only have a limited lifespan at the minute before they can no longer be charged. Is there an environmentally friendly way of disposing of millions of old batteries?

Yes. When they're not good enough to carry around in a car, they can be used for that local storage above, sitting in your house attached to your solar panels. And when they're no good for that, yes, they do get recycled! And, they last far longer on the road than expected.

I think there's a lot of obstacles to overcome before we can commit to completely banning diesel and petrol. We need a sustainable way of creating enough electric to cover the extra demand. I can't see that happening in the next 20 years really.

Well there are 23 years for the government to change their mind...

Now imagine, of the 35 million cars on the road today (so not including the increase we will see in 13 years time) half of them get home at 5.30pm and plug into the mains to recharge at 3.7kw each

My home charger is 7kW! Anyway, not everyone has to charge every day, just the same as everyone doesn't turn up at the petrol station at exactly the same time. Grid MANAGEMENT will have to get better, especially in relation to local management, but total peak capacity won't be affected greatly. 23 years is a long time. Get back to me when we're having brownouts.

That is an extra 65GW of demand on the grid. So we need to construct another 20 Hinckley Points at £20billion each, meaning we need to find £400 billion.

You're dribbling on your Daily Mail, and the above is simply rubbish.

No Oil change, No Transmission fluid to change, No coolent needed, No spark plugs to change. Brake transmission cost will be halved because you use regenative braking more.

There could still be coolant - you've still got air con to think of, and all electric cars have some sort of thermal management for the battery and/or motor too. And there is still some transmission to take care of too.

Never going to happen if the only alternative is electric from an on board battery. You either need a shed load of coal fired power stations, which means swapping pollution from one type of fossil fuel to another (totally pointness).

Coal's dead, didn't you hear? Renewables has already overtaken it as a source. Electric cars use LESS power to move than petrol/diesels. That power is stored in a battery instead of a flammable liquid, but if you're trying to argue that it's still as dirty as a petrol/diesel, you're way off.

Care to post up this "quick calculation"?

Care to post how you calculated 'a shed load of coal fired power stations' or 'several nuclear stations'?!!

What happens on cloudy days? How are you storing all this energy?

BATTERIES! In power stations, sub stations, homes, and even, in the very cars you're complaining about!

And how about all the energy required to build these replacement cars? And the fossil fuels that are use in the component parts?

Is it more, or less than building an ICE car? Do you know? And as an example, the BMW i3 is built using only renewable power.

I will ask the question again.

How are these "self driving cars" going to be powered? Scotch mist?

You know the answer - With electricity. With cleaner power sources than we currently use. Don't you get that there will be less energy used, which means less pollution?

One thing that I don't understand about pollution is car exhausts used to be black at the end but I drive a 2.2L diesel and the exhaust is as clean after 30000 miles as it was when new.

Diesel Particulate filter. All the soot in the exhaust gets shoved into a little box, and burnt off every so often. Very high tech!

Also power out does not equate to power consumed - I doubt whether any electric car is any more than 50% efficient

You're thinking of ICE cars. Mercedes F1 is boasting that their hybrid engine has achieved 50% efficiency, and that wipes the floor with any engine on the road. Electric motors are 80% plus.

Try electric planes - they pollute far more than road vehicles

Agreed!

(I actually hope this doesn't happen, and that economic forces will simply mean that all these superminis, MPVs etc that are on the road now, will simply be better, cheaper cars, and there'll be no point in buying these with noisy rattly engines inside them. There will only be petrol cars bought by enthusiasts by the premium brands...

BeenThroughItAll

maximania wrote: »

You didn't read it all...

I'm running a bit low, where can I buy one of these gallon bottles of electricity?