The Garden Fence - proper Old Style support and chat!

Hard_Up_Hester

Morning Mar.

pollyanna_26

cbsexec said:

 My school had a second hand shop and most people bought uniform there. I think all schools should do it (as well as making basic uniform affordable with maybe a different tie and sew in badge).  I went to a grammar school.   

Sorry I missed your post. I had a choice of two grammer schools both convent schools with teaching nuns. I wanted to go to the one further away not far from the house my poor auntie and her large family lived in. Mum decided the journey was too long and opted for the one two bus rides away.

We were about to move from the terraced house to the modern one with big gardens which I knew would cost money. I offered to go to another school but mum was adamant I would go to a Grammer.

I saw the uniform and other things needed lists for both and the prices were eyewatering. We were a normal working class family, dad had a good job but was prone to pneumonia and pleurisy in winter which meant he'd be on sick pay oftrn in winter. Mum was a stay at home mum until he died a few years later.

No second hand uniform shops in either school. Indoor and Outdoor shoes had to be black leather Clarks. School coat was from George Henry Lees in the city (now John Lewis) a long list of items from specialist shops including the dreaded hats, velour in winter and straw in summer. The boys from the local grammer had great fun on the bus pulling them to the back of our heads until the elastic pinged or broke.

The nuns were even unkinder than the ones in infants and junior school . I got my education but felt very unhappy there. my sister 5 years younger than me went there when she passed her 11 plus but she was a people pleaser, yes sister , no sister.

I suspect I got my habit of asking questions in class from my dads father who was my favourite grandad. A stubborn Irishman always questioning the hows and whys of things.

I've been trawling through the past recently and have remembered many things. Some of my friends from school went to the one I'd like to have gone to and had an easier time.

|I looked up my grammer school recently to discover the nuns were gone. That was a surprise. The order had owned a lot of very expensive real estate for many years. The school was a huge Victorian detached. Over time we discovered they owned a very expensive nursing home nearby for private births and ill people. There was a mother and baby home and the young women worked in the laundry on the school site. Years later watching Dame Judi Dench playing the role of a mother searching for the son taken from her not long after his birth revived some memories of weeping laundry workers whose children weren't there any more.

Most surprising is the grammer merged with the local secondary modern some years ago. There was some talk of an incident some years ago which led to all the change but I was past caring anymore so didn't look further into that.

There was also an orphanage on the school site and other houses and buildings but the past is gone and time to leave it there.

i suppose when you were in a grammer school it may have been a long time after I was and school second hand shops may have been common then. Apart from anything else they are very environmentally friendly.giving usable items a second life. I've been a campaigner for the environment since the 60s and anything that escapes landfill and often helps someone in need is good.

pollyx

MingVase

I find it really awful that the saddest cruellest places in the past all seem to be linked to religion, the churches have a lot to answer for. Not the people who believed in them but the establishments and people at the top. This has left me with an extreme dislike of any religion.

pollyanna_26

MingVase said:

I find it really awful that the saddest cruellest places in the past all seem to be linked to religion, the churches have a lot to answer for. Not the people who believed in them but the establishments and people at the top. This has left me with an extreme dislike of any religion.

I have to agree Mar, when I met Justin Welby I felt he was a truly good man but he was just one man among many Anglicans.

I don't trust religion, partly due to the nuns throughout my school years and also how badly our parish priest and my mum handled my fathers death. Platitudes weren't what i needed. I was 15 with no idea he was terminally ill. He was coming home for Christmas but died on Christmas eve.

When I moved here a nice neighbour became a friend until she began to try to persuade me to attend bible readings in her home a few times a week and embrace Jehovah. I refused politely so she started pushing the Watchtower through the letterbox and turning up on the doorstep with others.

I told her I disageed with their view on blood transfusions and other things and she was wasting her time.

A while later dd2 began to have serious problems with her ears involving surgery and hospital stays.

According to the neighbour it was my fault for not engaging in the bible readings.

She had a lot of children and the youngest was like a little mouse and seldom spoke. She wasn't in my middle infant class but the other one for the same year.

Her teacher was overloaded trying to help her with her reading when she seldom spoke a word and teach the rest of the class

so I offered to see if she would read for me, she tried a little but seemed locked inside herself.

Youngest dd began to worry about her they were the same age.

When the quiet one was 16 she disappeared. A while later we learned about the bible classes and a little girl who'd been abused from an early age by the men carrying their bibles into the house and with the knowledge of her parents.

She did go on to have children and had a happy life she'd been cast out by family and the brethren for running away and that was the best thing that could have happened.

My dad who never seemed to go to church was quiet and kind but would never allow us to put money in the SA collecting tins when the band were playing carols. My mum would but not dad. Eventually he told me of his war service in the Royal navy escorting the convoys to Canada , America and sometimes Russia. The RN had good accomodation provided but the Merchant navy were depending on lodging houses or SA accomodation.

SA provided thin mattresses packed on floors and thin watery soup while overcharging to the point the merchantmen were left without money.  When the convoys returned home to Liverpool those who weren't local would make for the seamans mission , when that was full they'd try lodging houses when they were full it would be the SA and they would be treated as badly as they were overseas. It's the only timeI saw my dad angry. he was a gentle easy going person but not when he told me why we weren't putting coins in the collecting tins.

I have no issues with people who have a faith but organised religion isn't for me.

So much for education. I managed to misspell grammar in my recent posts and it's only just jumped off the page at me.

pollyx

annieb64

No second hand uniform shops in my day. My Mum had been a pupil at my grammar school so I inherited her school scarf. The summer frocks were cotton so she made those. We did have to buy a lot of the uniform from the uniform shop although I think we got the shirts from the Ladybird shop. 

My great aunt and grandma used to help set up the village jumble sales so any uniform  from my school would be put aside and I'd  have to try it on between finishing school and the start of the jumble sale.

It was quite common at my school to see girls in uniform that was too big for them -bought in the hope that they would get several years wear out of it.One girl wore the same gingham frocks all her time at the school. I know this because they changed the uniform in our third year so by the fifth form she was the only one left in gingham.She was actually from one of the better off families too-her father was an architect -most of us had fathers  who were small farmers or farm labourers.

pollyanna_26

I'd forgotten the school scarf annie. I was under orders never to lose it as it cost a lot. Nothing homemade was allowed which was a pity as my favourite aunt was a very good seamstress. My mum would often be involved in church jumble sales but no items of the uniform ever showed up.

The oldest of my two younger sisters needed full uniform too as for a time we were both in the school. Youngest sister decided to go to our local school rather than the grammar. She preferred to be with her school friends, enjoyed her time there and had a good education.

It's a long time ago now and a bit Blue Remembered Hills but it did show me what was acceptable in education and what wasn't which was a useful lesson for my future.

pollyx

annieb64

We'd also have to wear berets in the winter and boaters in the summer. We had "bus prefects" who made sure we didn't  take them off on the way home.

newroadahead

All the talk of school uniform resonates with me but for slightly different reasons 
My dad was in the forces and we moved a lot when I was younger so it was always new uniforms and different colours
When my mum died dad was still in the RAF so I was sent to boarding school who luckily had a second hand store
There were also strict rules about what mufti could be bought to help the feeling between the have and have not
OK so the haves had posher things but it wasn't quite so obvious 

Now having two grandchildren and having just spent a fair amount on their uniforms to help DD I am reminded of a conversation we had at school. when I said that all schools should have either black grey or navy trousers/ skirts and the tie or badge should signify which school it was
That way the outlay wouldn't be so great even for those less well off families but I don't think it will happen sadly

We had to attend church when I was at school and our winter Sunday uniform was cornflower blue pleated skirts and white pollar neck jumpers with grey overcoats 
I remember once when leaving hearing one of the parishioners saying how sorry she felt for the girls from the orphanage !!! I think my poor headmistress would have been mortified 

There were various Anglican churches we went to on a Sunday including baptist and Brethen
During my time I tried most of them 
I was christened RC my dad being Irish RC and mum C of E but I never went for 1tst holy communion as dad wanted me to decide for myself 
Eventually I was confirmed C of E but have not been a regular church goer for many years now Not sure why it just seemed to happen

Sorry Fencers I have just realised I have gone on a bit 
Enjoy your Sunday

NRA xxx

pollyanna_26

It's been really interesting reading of other peoples experiences NRA. You haven't "gone on a bit" it's a chatty garden fence and boy can we chat at times. Hope you have a good day too.

pollyx

newroadahead

Thank you Polly 
It's so strange to think back to our school days
I attended a reunion about 11 years ago and have already lost 2 friends since then  we are not 60 yet 
Thanks to.my youngsters at work bless them I sometimes feel older than my years 
Until 2 weeks ago I hadn't seen anyone from work and we had a day out together which was lovely we have had a few births and marriages during lockdown

NRA xx