The Nice People Thread, No.16: A Universe of Niceness.

michaels

hjd wrote: »

Can I just point out that I have tried this starting at 1000 and was still awake when I had finished (before getting into negative numbers of course).
Something different required, I think..

I start at 500 and sometimes get through several cycles down to 3. Problem is I am now pretty good at it so can still think about other things at the same time.....

GDB2222

hjd wrote: »

Can I just point out that I have tried this starting at 1000 and was still awake when I had finished (before getting into negative numbers of course).
Something different required, I think..

There must have been a certain exuberant joy if you started at 1000 and ended up at 6, ie no mistakes or a fair bit of luck. I tend to find that it either relaxes me enough to get to sleep in a couple of minutes or I might as well give up and read a book.

GDB2222

ivyleaf wrote: »

A neurologist asked me to do this when I was having cognitive problems (they turned out to be "just" due to the M.E.). To count backwards in sevens from 100.
I started confidently enough with "93", but it got a bit slower after that I remember saying to him "I know I have to take another 3 off to get to 90, but I can't work out what happens after that!"
I somehow managed it in the end. Thankfully he didn't need me to count all the way down to single figures
He referred me for Neuropsychometry tests, but I had to wait about 4 months and was starting to get a bit better by then.

I'm sorry the ME is hitting you so hard. I suppose it helps to get the diagnosis.

The test you took was the Mini Mental State Examination.

https://www.bgs.org.uk/sites/default/files/content/attachment/2018-07-05/mini-mental_state_exam.pdf

SingleSue

Weirdly I find that doing any kind of maths whilst trying to go to sleep wakes me up rather than helps me to sleep. Numbers make my brain whir and come alive and want to do more and then it becomes like an insatiable monster wanting more and more.

For me, I find the best thing is finding something that can give me facts (so going on the internet, reading etc), so my brain is too full to have spare space to think and tumble things around.

Pyxis

GDB2222 wrote: »

There must have been a certain exuberant joy if you started at 1000 and ended up at 6, ie no mistakes or a fair bit of luck. I tend to find that it either relaxes me enough to get to sleep in a couple of minutes or I might as well give up and read a book.

In the absence of the TV, I pick up a crossword. I have to take my glasses off, so I pick a clue that's not too long, turn off the light etc, and then think about the clue.

If I solve it before dropping off, I just pick another one.

I usually do manage to drop off eventually.

What annoys me, is that I keep waking up. If I'm lucky, it's only once, but very often it's two or three times, so the whole thing has to start again.

I woke up finally at 03.30 today. That's the latest it's been for a few weeks, probably because of this wretched hamstring strain.

ivyleaf

GDB2222 wrote: »

I'm sorry the ME is hitting you so hard. I suppose it helps to get the diagnosis.

The test you took was the Mini Mental State Examination.

https://www.bgs.org.uk/sites/default/files/content/attachment/2018-07-05/mini-mental_state_exam.pdf

Thank you GDB. The cognitive problems were scary, but that happened several years ago now. It was quite bizarre at times. i remember one day my DD and I were waiting for a bus outside an electrical appliance shop. We were admiring the cookers in the window. One was coloured British Racing Green. I said (or intended to say) "I like that green one!" but what came out of my mouth was "I like that orange one!" Weird.

LydiaJ

michaels wrote: »

I start at 500 and sometimes get through several cycles down to 3. Problem is I am now pretty good at it so can still think about other things at the same time.....

Perhaps you need to try a harder number that you haven't practised so much - like starting at 5000 and counting down 87 at a time??

Pyxis wrote: »

In the absence of the TV, I pick up a crossword. I have to take my glasses off, so I pick a clue that's not too long, turn off the light etc, and then think about the clue.

If I solve it before dropping off, I just pick another one.

What annoys me, is that I keep waking up. If I'm lucky, it's only once, but very often it's two or three times, so the whole thing has to start again.

I woke up finally at 03.30 today. That's the latest it's been for a few weeks, probably because of this wretched hamstring strain.

Yes! I do this. It quite often works well for me.

Nevertheless, I got terrible terrible insomnia when I hit perimenopause. Couldn't get to sleep until nearly 3am and woke up at 5:30 unable to go back to sleep - that sort of thing, night after night. Then of course I felt awful during the day. It was truly debilitating.

My GP told me that although sleeping pills as such are bad, they've had good results with an antidepressant (mirtazapine) at a lower dose than they use for depression. I tried it and it works wonders for me. I still wake up, but I can go back to sleep again without too much trouble. Even better, I googled for scientific studies of its effects on sleep, and it doesn't have the disruptive effects of actual sleeping pills - instead you get something very closely approximating to a normal ratio of different stages of sleep. Even though there's a slight change in the ratios of different stages of NREM sleep, it's a small effect, and I'm sure it's outweighed by regaining the ability to sleep for a sensible number of hours.

ETA Shopping result today. Got this dress (Jacques Vert, RRP £130ish) in a charity shop, in a half price sale, for £20. Work Christmas party coming up on Thursday, and I had nothing suitable, and then spotted this when out shopping with a friend.

michaels

LydiaJ wrote: »

Perhaps you need to try a harder number that you haven't practised so much - like starting at 5000 and counting down 87 at a time??



Yes! I do this. It quite often works well for me.

Nevertheless, I got terrible terrible insomnia when I hit perimenopause. Couldn't get to sleep until nearly 3am and woke up at 5:30 unable to go back to sleep - that sort of thing, night after night. Then of course I felt awful during the day. It was truly debilitating.

My GP told me that although sleeping pills as such are bad, they've had good results with an antidepressant (mirtazapine) at a lower dose than they use for depression. I tried it and it works wonders for me. I still wake up, but I can go back to sleep again without too much trouble. Even better, I googled for scientific studies of its effects on sleep, and it doesn't have the disruptive effects of actual sleeping pills - instead you get something very closely approximating to a normal ratio of different stages of sleep. Even though there's a slight change in the ratios of different stages of NREM sleep, it's a small effect, and I'm sure it's outweighed by regaining the ability to sleep for a sensible number of hours.

ETA Shopping result today. Got this dress (Jacques Vert, RRP £130ish) in a charity shop, in a half price sale, for £20. Work Christmas party coming up on Thursday, and I had nothing suitable, and then spotted this when out shopping with a friend.

Dress is hot

Have you tried using one of those fitness bands that tracks your sleep?

michaels

Another new broadband supplier today, all went like clockwork.

However, what are the 24 devices on my network?!

Home hub
PC
2 laptops
Car charger
Solar inverter
2 tablets
2 printers
Wii
Chromecast
2 set top boxes
3 I things
5 android phones

But what else?

LydiaJ

michaels wrote: »

Dress is hot

Glad you approve my taste.
It's actually very similar in shape and design to the mint green one I posted a pic of "elsewhere" when I bought it back at the end of April 2017. I am not very adventurous with clothes. When I find something I like I tend to stick with it.

Also, for the sort of event where one is going to have to dress up a bit and also eat a lot, the best option is always something that looks at least a bit dressed up but is made of stretchy fabric.

michaels wrote: »

Have you tried using one of those fitness bands that tracks your sleep?

If I had a fitness band I would certainly use it to track sleep, but tracking sleep doesn't feel like a good enough justification for shelling out for an expensive sort of fitness band, and I don't believe that cheap fitness bands provide information that's at all reliable.

I am trying, however, to record "sleep opportunity" (length of time spent lying down in the dark allowing sleep to occur if your body cooperates), on the grounds that measuring something motivates you to improve it. I am by nature a night owl, working in a job that requires me to get up 4 days a week at a time when my body clock thinks I should be sleeping. Consequently, I struggle to maintain sufficient self-discipline to make myself go to bed at what is for me and unnaturally early time. Recording sleep opportunity is so far having only a marginal influence on my "go to bed on time" efforts, but I shall keep trying.

Have I mentioned the fascinating book about sleep I read recently? If not, allow me to recommend it here. As a scientist, but not a biological one, I love the way the book's assertions are so thoroughly and explicitly grounded in reputable evidence, but the evidence is presented in a way that a non-specialist can easily understand.