ECP POPLA Code issued...now what?

first78

http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/InkSpot3/media/ECP/contract2.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=2


This is the contract ECP included in their evidence pack...I hope I have posted the link properly...should be 3 pages.

first78

Are there examples anywhere of what people have written in their rebuttal of the evidence packs? I'm confused how much detail I need to put as there is a word/character limit of 2000.


With regards to the "date issued" and the wording in the PCN of "if after 29 days..." do I just need to write that "due to the wording and dates on the PCN ECP have failed to comply with the strict criteria as set out in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012?"


Looking at the signs they have photographed and included as evidence in their pack I am unable to read the small print.


These are 3 of the pages of photos they have included:


http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/InkSpot3/media/ECP/Image%207.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Umkomaas

This is a list of bookmarked evidence pack rebuttals. I'm conscious that some of these are now somwhat dated, but they do provide an insight into how to make a start on your own.

Don't be restrained by the 2,000 character limit. Simply convert your eventual rebuttal into a .pdf file and attach to an email.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67385911#Comment_67385911

And another one to consider.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=67402366&postcount=26

And a further one.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13uLICVZ13MeT7Q_4qzJUIyAn-jtVJUIVeCaaINpI2U8/mobilebasic

And more recent ones.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69765991#Comment_69765991

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70246824#Comment_70246824

But please don't copy blindly and send off something that doesn't relate to your particular parking event (some copy and paste the name of the wrong PPC for example - which blows the credibility of the rebuttal), so it needs a very detailed proof-reading by you. The forum won't provide it.

HTH.

Coupon-mad

Why not just use POPLA's own words back at them?

Yes you do have a golden ECP ticket!!

So, read POPLA decisions (maxnutter just posted on a thread I replied on) which show POPLA's rationale, and turn their own wording into your rebuttal wording, so POPLA recognise it and can't go anywhere else with it. Use POPLA's words - I don't mean quote them, use them as your words.

first78

Could someone look at the "contract" I posted the link to in #52 and let me know if I can state that I do not feel it is a contract due to lack of details...no names or positions of those who signed. No start and end date.

Redx

first78 wrote: »

Could someone look at the "contract" I posted the link to in #52 and let me know if I can state that I do not feel it is a contract due to lack of details...no names or positions of those who signed. No start and end date.

Sainsburys signature is illegible

Sainsburys printed name is illegible

and company position of authority not stated

the sainsburys date is not complete, no year

no length of contract , no indication of when it expires or if its a "rolling contract" - no indication that it was valid on the date of your pcn

plus their sign has all the hidden stuff in small print, no indication of what any penalty might be (compare it to the BEAVIS sign and put them side by side in your pdf, so the assessor can see the difference)

and as stated by CM above, use the words popla used in that other popla decision to formulate your own rebuttal

first78

Okay, so for the first point in my rebutall how is this:

1) No keeper liability

As stated in my evidence, in order for the operator (Euro Car Parks) to transfer liability for unpaid parking charges from the driver of the vehicle, to the registered keeper, the regulations laid out in the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 must be adhered to. PoFA 2012 states must “warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given – (i) The amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full; and (ii) The creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met), have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid”. Therefore, transfer of liability occurs “28 days beginning with the day after the date the notice is given”. However the PCN XXXXXX that has been received states “…29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the Date Issued”. This is incorrect because the field “Date Issued” is actually the date the PCN was issued, not the date the notice to keeper was sent out.

first78

Redx wrote: »

Sainsburys signature is illegible

Sainsburys printed name is illegible

and company position of authority not stated

the sainsburys date is not complete, no year

no length of contract , no indication of when it expires or if its a "rolling contract" - no indication that it was valid on the date of your pcn

plus their sign has all the hidden stuff in small print, no indication of what any penalty might be (compare it to the BEAVIS sign and put them side by side in your pdf, so the assessor can see the difference)

and as stated by CM above, use the words popla used in that other popla decision to formulate your own rebuttal

So I've been trying to find legislation to evidence that ECP's contract is in no way a contract because of it's failure to include basic details mentioned above. I haven't found anything so far...has anyone else used this argument against a PCN and found any points I could use?

Coupon-mad

There is no legislation about what constitutes a contract, except the Consumer Rights Act and CPUTRS. You don't need it, just list the issues as your point #2, and relax. You WILL win on point #1.

first78

Coupon-mad wrote: »

There is no legislation about what constitutes a contract, except the Consumer Rights Act and CPUTRS. You don't need it, just list the issues as your point #2, and relax. You WILL win on point #1.

Thanks. Should I just leave it at those two points or continue with more? I'm assuming that the Assessor has to go through the appeal I wrote when I initially got rejected by ECP and issue s with a POPLA code?