Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

Herzlos

cogito wrote: »

And I'm sick of the relentless negativity of Remainers who have no more idea of what the future holds than anyone else.

Most of the negativity is coming from people who have the cheek to ask questions like "what are we playing at?" "how's that going to work?" "what manufacturing is going to boom?".

Most of the optimism seems to be coming from people who are responding to them with "stop complaining, it'll be fine, eventually".

We need more reassurance than "shut up".

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

...
We need more reassurance than "shut up".

There is no reassurance.

Not if we leave the EU. Not if we stay in the EU.

This is the point. We are essentially in a comfort zone for the wealthy and middle classes who think that because life is okay today, it will always remain so.

I believe the world is changing, and we are going to have to face up to some new challenges as a result.

Large amounts of British business and valuable property are now owned by foreign interests. This isn't for any charitable reasons.

We used to leverage the assets of colonial countries, so why should it be a surprise if the same applies to us.

Brexit could never be an end goal. It's merely an opportunity to do things differently.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

It's merely an opportunity to do things differently.

And what are we actually going to do differently?

Herzlos

Conrad wrote: »

I've been pondering the pessimism of ardent Remainers that endlessly imply we are a helpless little island, mere jellyfish on the tide of fate unable to shape our destiny, simply a scrounging dog that will take whatever scraps are thrown.

I know this is pretty much you're only narrative, but no-one is saying that at all.

We're just saying that we're nothing like as significant or world leading as you think we are. We don't have an Empire anymore, we barely manufacture anything. We're not (on our own) a particularly large buyer of anything across a market.

We're a small country, and will be treated as a small country.
We're punching a bit above our weight, but are still totally outclassed by those 10x our size.

We're also completely divided.

mayonnaise

Arklight wrote: »

Most posters on this thread discussing Brexit who have suggested we are about to enter a "golden age" of increased exports manufactured in Britain either don't work in manufacturing, have nothing to do with any industry impacted by Brexit, are retired, or unemployed.

I do work in a Brexit impacted industry and I am sick of Jeremy Kyle watchers telling me how great Brexit is going to be, just before they slope off to an encrusted sofa covered in tubes of Pringles, or Brexit pensioners with a Daily Mail tucked under their arm who amble off to the golf club to fill the 12 hour void in their day while they wait for my taxes to land in their bank account for that month.

:mad::mad:

Post of the month.

Sapphire

Conrad wrote: »

What causes someone to see weakness and impotence, rather than confidence and opportunity?

It's to do with self-interest, more than anything else – the wish of powerful and wealthy unelected individuals to retain/gain more money/power personally for themselves, hence the attempts to spread the message via their paid schills that the EU is somehow a good thing, and to try and stifle any arguments to the contrary. The unelected EU politburo is also using propaganda – it's spending millions of our taxpayers' money to promote its project.

The sinister forces at work to overturn our vote don't 'see weakness and impotence, rather than confidence and opportunity' – they are in it to maintain and further gain money/power for themselves. This is being done via propaganda, brainwashing and blackmail.

Vile. :cool:

always_sunny

kabayiri wrote: »

There is no reassurance.

Not if we leave the EU. Not if we stay in the EU.

This is the point. We are essentially in a comfort zone for the wealthy and middle classes who think that because life is okay today, it will always remain so.

So the point is to take an economy that essentially was growing pretty healthily inside the EU, a country that was able to trade internationally, have their own legislation and the lot and plunge it into the unknown because "We are essentially in a comfort zone" to then go back and try to negotiate trade deals with the same union you want to separate from.

Because Brexit was not about the sluggish economy, it was not about immigration, it was not about the EU. Brexit means Breaxit and it will be red, white and blue Brexit.

kabayiri

mayonnaise wrote: »

Post of the [STRIKE]month[/STRIKE] mouth.

Fixed that for you

Sapphire

always_sunny wrote: »

I don't know where you are, but around where I am the pensioners seems to have a good life. There is nothing wrong with that, they (the pensioners) live through a different time but don't make it sound as if it's all self funded.

Well, that's good for the pensioners in your area. However, even in my own family, there are pensioners who through no fault of their own do not have 'a good life' – the image of 'golf-playing pensioners' certainly does not apply to them. They never complain, and perhaps that's why this vulnerable group is being targeted, maybe as a prelude to divesting the 'middle classes' of any assets they do have (what a shame it will be for their ungrateful children to lose their inheritance :rotfl:).

And when did I say that I believe 'it's all self funded'? Benefits to all and sundry are not, either – but at least many pensioners do still pay tax, and have done during decades of hard work and living, largely uncomplainingly, through the sorts of hard times that most people born more recently appear to have no concept of.

Herzlos

Sapphire wrote: »

It's to do with self-interest, more than anything else – the wish of powerful and wealthy unelected individuals to retain/gain more money/power personally for themselves, hence the attempts to spread the message via their paid schills that the EU is somehow a good thing, and to try and stifle any arguments to the contrary.

I'd say it's the other way round - the rich powerful and wealthy want Brexit because it gives them more power and less checks. They get the ability to suppress more dissent.

Didn't Murdock say that he hates the EU because whilst downing street does what it's told, the EU doesn't listen to him?

People are saying we did better in the EU, because we did better in the EU. People are saying we'll do worse out of the EU because we'll do worse out of the EU.