Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

Rinoa

setmefree2 wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/17/eu-migrants-barred-claiming-benefits-brexit-theresa-may-revives/

That's more like it. H M Govt have finally realises we don't need any more subsidised strawberry pickers. :T

Thrugelmir

ilovehouses wrote: »

Oddly after God knows how many years in the EU they've only just cottoned on they can do this as a matter of policy. Nothing to do with the EU.

Brussels not unsurprisingly objected to Camerons proposals and they were watered down.

Rinoa

economic wrote: »

do you honstely think this graph tells everything about how rich we got?

firstly its the average, the median wage would be a lot better. secondly the numbers would include the low paid migrants that we beenfit from which in itself would bring the average wage down. a better (but still not nearly conclusive) way to do this would be to graph median wages for uk population excluding all migrants.

the other thing is are these wages in nominal terms or real? if nominal then it is seriously misleading.

wages dont tell the full story about wealth. what about gifts and inheritances being passed down? what about things like technology and healthcare and cheap flights and the massive choice available now for shopping on amazon? what about home delivery for groceries being much more common. cheap taxi via uber? much more choice of hotels via airbnb? the ability to work from home? there is so much richness in this economy you really need to open your eyes to see it. its not as simple as wage growth - thats just really stupid.

Firstly, here's the median you suggested would be better. Virtually no difference.



Here's how different ages fared



https://www.ft.com/content/16662297-2067-3289-81bf-95da91628fbc

Obviously the younger you are the more you'll be competing with migrant workers.

Still, we can get our car hand washed for a fiver, so it's not all bad.

always_sunny

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Because a lot of things are just different, and have pros and cons either way. For example, kids today lose the social benefits of going to the library with their friends, from the exercise of walking or cycling there. The shear availability of information also means expectations are higher in terms of what can be researched (perhaps more relevant at higher education levels, but..). Not to mention the negatives of the internet on young people to do with cyber bullying, the impact of social media on future careers etc. (I don't necessarily agree with some of the hysteria around the internet FYI, just highlighting with popular perceptions).

I think if you're going to compare between generations, it has to be on equal terms... i.e. the internet wasnt available to young baby boomers, so isn't comparable... you could legitimately say easier for millennials to communicate, or like you said, do their homework,but it all seems of little consequence, unlike jobs and housing. I'm struggling to explain what I'm thinking well, but it seems when older generations talk about us having it easy, their examples tend to be rather superficial... they could argue things like medical and dental improvements, which obviously are a lot better now, but an awful lot of important stuff seems to me to be worse.

That's point of views though. I grew up with the internet, I have no memories of otherwise.
Why would you want to go to a library and have a limited amount of books when you can do the same online and access the world libraries?
The internet has revolutionised the world and the way we do many things, I don't see the internet as something new but something that has always been there.

I don't know how old you are, but I guess you could compare the internet to the telephone and how it changed lives. i.e. instead of mailing letters they could talk to each other.
Even know you still find folks who like to send letters instead of calling or emailing.
Good for them but it doesn't mean what they do it's better (I think they have way too much time on their hands!)

economic

Rinoa wrote: »

Firstly, here's the median you suggested would be better. Virtually no difference.



Here's how different ages fared



https://www.ft.com/content/16662297-2067-3289-81bf-95da91628fbc

Obviously the younger you are the more you'll be competing with migrant workers.

Still, we can get our car hand washed for a fiver, so it's not all bad.

these graphs are as expected. the older you are, the more valuable your experience/skills are and so you can demand more. i imagine the income numbers also include investment income too?

and as i said wage rises are just a small indicator of wealth in this country. how about all the other things i mentioned.

cogito

Here's an interesting article from the Excess about relocation of EU agencies from London and the treatment handed out to employees who declined to move to Budapest.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/842838/Brexit-news-EU-warned-removing-agencies-Britain-UK

The employees sued for wrongful dismissal and lost. Now anyone who knows anything about UK Employment Law will know that if your employer tries to force you to relocate outside a reasonable commuting distance from your home, you will be deemed to have been dismissed and receive compensation.

We've heard so much about the ECJ affording better protection to citizens than UK law but it seems that it isn't true after all, at least when it comes to their own employees.

Shocking.

Herzlos

GreatApe wrote: »

No one mentally stable in the UK needs to use a food bank but if they are available then people will make use of them. And yes people will take from food banks so they have more money to spend on other things..

I think you really need to volunteer at a food bank. It'd be eye opening for you.

Rusty_Shackleton

cogito wrote: »

Here's an interesting article from the Excess about relocation of EU agencies from London and the treatment handed out to employees who declined to move to Budapest.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/842838/Brexit-news-EU-warned-removing-agencies-Britain-UK

The employees sued for wrongful dismissal and lost. Now anyone who knows anything about UK Employment Law will know that if your employer tries to force you to relocate outside a reasonable commuting distance from your home, you will be deemed to have been dismissed and receive compensation.

We've heard so much about the ECJ affording better protection to citizens than UK law but it seems that it isn't true after all, at least when it comes to their own employees.

Shocking.

You do yourself a disservice by linking to the Express, I mean come on surely at the very least the mail or telegraph have reported the story. If they haven't then the entire story is likely made up.

I honestly don't know the details of the story, but as a matter of principle I would agree someone losing their job should be compensated. I also think the EU would be in their right minds to pass that bill to the UK with a note of "you broke it, you bought it", since we're the ones forcing an unreasonable move on those employees. Presumably you would consider this an acceptable price of regaining that sovereignty we never lost but it kind of felt to some people like we had?

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

Here's an interesting article from the Excess about relocation of EU agencies from London and the treatment handed out to employees who declined to move to Budapest.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/842838/Brexit-news-EU-warned-removing-agencies-Britain-UK

The employees sued for wrongful dismissal and lost. Now anyone who knows anything about UK Employment Law will know that if your employer tries to force you to relocate outside a reasonable commuting distance from your home, you will be deemed to have been dismissed and receive compensation.

We've heard so much about the ECJ affording better protection to citizens than UK law but it seems that it isn't true after all, at least when it comes to their own employees.

Shocking.

There is nothing shocking. EU agencies will not stay on a non-EU country.
Period.

(The change is circumstances has nothing to do with the EU, perhaps the UK should compensate these employees given that the UK decided to leave.)

Linton

economic wrote: »

these graphs are as expected. the older you are, the more valuable your experience/skills are and so you can demand more. ........

Perhaps, but why this is effect more pronounced now than previously?

Alternatively more people are retiring with good pensions. Many of those who retired 10 years ago or more may well have had a smaller employer's pension, especially women.

Or perhaps its something to do with the goverment's policy of preferentially benefitting those you receive income from investments rather than earnings.