First wife wants to take control of ex husbands funeral

Savvy_Sue

Bath_cube wrote: »

I always thought that those DIY wills weren't worth the paper there written on?. My cousin doesn't know who the two people who signed the will are and her husbands ex and the grown up kids are saying it could be a forgery etc.I have been told the f

When someone here is saying they will just get one of those DIY wills and fill it in, there is generally a chorus saying "see a solicitor and get the job done properly". However, that's not because it's impossible to do the job right with a DIY kit, just that it's more difficult to do the job right.

Of course the ex and his children are saying it could be a forgery. They believe that in that case, they'll stand to benefit. But what they're not saying is that if that will is not valid, it's likely the laws of intestacy will apply. In which case your cousin will get the first £250,000 of her late husband's estate. And as already stated, the rest would go to his adult children. His ex wife gets nothing. Nada. Zilch.

If your cousin can possibly afford to engage a solicitor, I think it would be money very very well spent. It could be worth asking around for one who specialises in 'contentious' probate, rather than a general one. She certainly needs one who specialises in wills and probate. But the peace of mind it will give - hassle from the ex? "Speak to my solicitor". Letter from the ex's solicitor (if indeed she engages on)? "Refer to my solicitor".

Yorkshireman99

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Agree, and it should not cost very much to get a legal opinion on whether the will she has found is valid or not, and not very much more to get a firm warning letter sent to the ex wife if it IS valid.

There really is no need to get a legal opinion. A complete waste of money unless there are obvious irregularities. The will should be submitted for probate and the Probate Office will decide if it is valid or not. If it is rejected then an application for letters of administration must be made.

Yorkshireman99

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

When someone here is saying they will just get one of those DIY wills and fill it in, there is generally a chorus saying "see a solicitor and get the job done properly". However, that's not because it's impossible to do the job right with a DIY kit, just that it's more difficult to do the job right.

Of course the ex and his children are saying it could be a forgery. They believe that in that case, they'll stand to benefit. But what they're not saying is that if that will is not valid, it's likely the laws of intestacy will apply. In which case your cousin will get the first £250,000 of her late husband's estate. And as already stated, the rest would go to his adult children. His ex wife gets nothing. Nada. Zilch.

If your cousin can possibly afford to engage a solicitor, I think it would be money very very well spent. It could be worth asking around for one who specialises in 'contentious' probate, rather than a general one. She certainly needs one who specialises in wills and probate. But the peace of mind it will give - hassle from the ex? "Speak to my solicitor". Letter from the ex's solicitor (if indeed she engages on)? "Refer to my solicitor".

It really would be a complete waste of money! Ultimately it is for the Probate Office to decide. No need to spend money unless there are obvious errors.

Mojisola

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

But what they're not saying is that if that will is not valid, it's likely the laws of intestacy will apply.

In which case your cousin will get the first £250,000 of her late husband's estate. And as already stated, the rest would go to his adult children.

The wife will get the first £250k plus all the chattels and half of what is left over - the other half will be shared equally between his children.

TBagpuss

Bath_cube wrote: »

I have been over to see my cousin this weekend and I have discovered a few things. They were not getting on together for some time before his death and he made his family aware of this. He was a heavy drinker and went out every night leaving my cousin alone. He told his former wife he wanted to go back to her and force my cousin from the house so he could sell it and use it to fund a comfortable retirement with the ex.

His family are saying this changes things for my cousin and she will have to leave the home and accept this. I have advised her to speak to a solicitor and not citizens advice and also the police as myself and my uncle (my cousins dad) think they are harassing her and are saying she killed her husband.

OK, the fact they were not getting on is irrelevant, unless he actually made a new will.

In terms of the will which he did make, a will is valid provided it is:
- In writing
- Signed by the testator
- Signed by two witnesses who were present at the same time and who saw the testator sign.

If the step-children are claiming that the will is not valid then they would have to prove this.

Even if the will were not valid, then under intestacy rules, your cousin would be entitled to the first £250,000 from her husband's estate, and to 50% of anything over £250,000.

The other 50% would be shared equally between all of her husband's children.

Her husband's ex-wife has no right to anything.

Is the house currently in joint names or in her husband's sole name? If it is in both their names, do they own as tenants in common or s joint tenants?

If they own as tenants in common then the house passes to her automatically, and doesn't form part of his estate for probate purposes. If they own as tenants in common then only half of it (or this defined share, if they had a declaration of trust) forms part of his estate

Given the circumstances, I would suggest that she goes ahead with applying for probate on the will which she holds, as soon as possible. She may find that it is helpful to her to get a solicitor to deal with this simply to allow her to refer all queries to the solicitor, if this would reduce the stress on her.

depending on who is making the allegations and claims she can also write (or get a solicitor to write) to those individuals to make clear to them that she will not be discussing the will, estate or any other issues arising from her husband's death with them and that if they continue to contact her about those issues, or to make malicious allegations about her, that she will consider that to be harassment and will report it to the police as such. For anyone other than the step-children (or anyone who is mentioned in the will) she can include a statement that they are not included in the will and therefore there is nothing about which they need to contact her.

If anything is coming directly from the stepchildren I would soften that slightly to say that they are not in the will (if that is correct) but that she will keep them informed but that in light of their behavior must insist on all communication being in writing (that way, she doesn't have to deal with difficult conversations, and she had a paper trail!) tell her to keep copies of any letters she sends.

As they have gone so far as to claim s he killed her husband I would recommend that she contacts the police now, that she tells them what is going on, including the fact that there is a valid will and a death certificate, and that she is being harassed and that threats have been made to accuse her of being involved in her husband's death. That way, anyone is malicious enough to make those allegations openly, he police are already aware of the background.

If she wanted, she could look through her husband's paperwork to see whether there is anything relating to his divorce. It is advisable for people to have a formal court order resolving financial maters when they divorce, but this is not compulsory. It is also possible to apply to a court for copies of any order - there is a costs and this is lower if you can give the date and / or case reference number. If not, you can have a search carried out. I would however not suggest doing this unless the ex-wife seeks to make a formal claim.

If there was an order, then it almost certianly includes a provision stating that neither party can make any claim under the inheritance act against the other's estate. If there was not order, then if she has not remarried, the ex wife may have standing to make a claim on the estate, but to succeed, she would have to show that the will failed to make reasonable provision for her. Given that she was divorced almost 20 years ago, unless the husband was paying her maintenance when he died, it is likely that having her nothing would be entirely reasonable.

So far as the funeral is concerned, I think it depends a little on exactly what the ex herself (as opposed to other family members) is doing. It is totally reasonable to exclude her from any ole in planning the funeral, (and as she works for the council, I would also recommend that you cousin explicitly states, and asks that it be noted in writing, in dealing with any other part or the same council, that [name of ex wife] is *not * authorised to access any information, or be in any way involved, with the funeral arrangements. I would expect that internal policies would mean that she should not use her position to access information etc but explicitly noting it may help avoid a situation where a staff member innocently gives her information because they were not aware of her connection.

I don't think it is inherently unreasonable for the adult children to want their mother's support at the funeral but if the ex-wife is directly harassing your cousin I think she would be fine to say to the children that as a result of her behaviour, ex-wife will not be welcome. She should also let the crematorium / funeral directors know of the issue.

Bath_cube

I phoned my cousin whilst on my morning break and she has asked the funeral director to postpone the funeral until this mess is sorted. I have offered to send her a cheque for £200 to help with getting her some sound proper legal advice. I have told her of the advice on here of taking the will to probate and she has listened to me and taken it on board. Her husband had a policy with his employer which will cover his funeral costs plus a lump sum. He also had a life assurance policy with a separate insurer. His daughter has told my cousin that herself and her mum are going to see a solicitor because they think my cousin is being evasive about finances etc. Also they want his ashes after the funeral. My cousin was going to offer his son and daughter five thousand each but doesn't know what to do now.

troubleinparadise

Your poor cousin sounds like she is being bullied by her late husband's ex-wife and children.

TBagpuss has given a very good detailed guide to what she should do; taking some legal advice to give herself confidence about the Will (and its validity or otherwise) and her rights so that she can stand up to the things she is being told by the extended family and friends that are incorrect or not their responsibility might help her feel stronger in not getting sucked into their nonsense.

But she really does need to get on with that as it appears they will continue to undermine her.

Her one crumb of comfort is that at some point in the future she will never need to have anything to do with them again!

Yorkshireman99

She should not offer them a penny. She really should resist their bullying.

Bath_cube

Got home to hear that my cousin has contacted a number for the local probate office. Now her husbands daughter is saying when my cousin dies any property etc should go to her or her brother and my cousin can't sell the house and move away elsewhere. My cousin wants to sell up and move away once all this is over.

Yorkshireman99

Bath_cube wrote: »

Got home to hear that my cousin has contacted a number for the local probate office. Now her husbands daughter is saying when my cousin dies any property etc should go to her or her brother and my cousin can't sell the house and move away elsewhere. My cousin wants to sell up and move away once all this is over.

They are talking 100% pure BS. What they are doing is bordering on harassment. It might almost be worth her making a formal complaint to the police about it.

Harassment Act

"Under this Act, it is now an offence for a person to pursue a course of action which amounts to harassment of another individual, and that they know or ought to know amounts to harassment. Under this act the definition of harassment is behaviour which causes alarm or distress."