Cowboy Builder doing work without contract

Doozergirl

I don't think you've learned much from the plastering episode if you still didn't do due diligence and managed to employ someone to work on gas/electrics who isn't registered with the appropriate competent person's scheme.

Clearly there is more to this story than you started with. And as with every other thread of this kind, it is unfortunately a case of not doing enough research before the job begins. It is a lot less work and hassle than following someone around and checking the regulations yourself.

I'm still baffled that someone would just allow any old bathroom suite to be fitted without agreeing it along with the price.

That said, I do hope you get things sorted.

gecko19

Aylesbury_Duck wrote: »

You really should have checked all this and agreed everything before work started. Your view on what constitutes a reasonable labour rate is misguided, and you're trying to force a reduction through by bargain-hunting after work has begun. Your maths is all over the place too, so I would be very careful and check your arithmetic before going any further. How do you calculate that charging £2,000 for a £800 suite is "claiming 120%"?

Hello Aylesbury Duck,
Thanks for responding. I did not quote the labor rate, he quoted his labor rate to me( I did not ask for a reduction either), with the option of me buying materials if I wanted to. His contract was that he would complete work in 2 weeks, he is yet to complete 5 week since the start of work. I am not bargain hunting, I just want stuff and work commensurate with the quality and worksmanship he said he would put in. I am still happy to pay the whole amount if it is what he agreed he would do.

Yes my numbers are wrong , he is quoting a 150% surcharge on an 800£ bathroom suite(not including labor).
Calculation : 800£ + (150% of 800)£ = 800£ + 1200£ = 2000£.

Sorry for this. It is even more worse looking at it now. Despite this I still have a leaking toilet!

gecko19

Doozergirl wrote: »

I don't think you've learned much from the plastering episode if you still didn't do due diligence and managed to employ someone to work on gas/electrics who isn't registered with the appropriate competent person's scheme.

Clearly there is more to this story than you started with. And as with every other thread of this kind, it is unfortunately a case of not doing enough research before the job begins. It is a lot less work and hassle than following someone around and checking the regulations yourself.

I'm still baffled that someone would just allow any old bathroom suite to be fitted without agreeing it along with the price.

That said, I do hope you get things sorted.

Hello Doozergirl,

Thanks for getting back. I did ask him about insurance,gas safe and electric registration - he said he passed them all. I like to trust people when the say something - asking him for all the documents before starting even when he said he is cleared for all necessary work is already not trusting him on day one.

There is not more to the story than this - a family decided to get their home done by a builder who seemed to know what he was talking about.His previous work looked exemplary. It took two months from first talks to decide that work was going ahead , at which point a break up was asked and a convincing break up of item costs and labor was provided- which seemed convincing. As I said earlier, if the effort+materials was mostly inline with what he quoted I would pay.


As mentioned in another post of mine, if a builder says he will complete work in time and then decides to do work slowly and then doesnt turn up for work and lies to me about working when he really was not and then gets stuff not in line with what we wanted etc, my trust will start eroding. This is the point when I get my electrician's references etc outside and check his work - he had my trust, by his own doing he lost it, at which point I have to micro manage him and then check that everything is in order myself. I think the word good-faith has far reaching consequences, I had good faith in him to start with, it has eroded by his own doings.

Thanks for your wishes. I too hope to get it done and then move on.

stator

gecko19 wrote: »

Hello Aylesbury Duck,
Thanks for responding. I did not quote the labor rate, he quoted his labor rate to me( I did not ask for a reduction either), with the option of me buying materials if I wanted to. His contract was that he would complete work in 2 weeks, he is yet to complete 5 week since the start of work. I am not bargain hunting, I just want stuff and work commensurate with the quality and worksmanship he said he would put in. I am still happy to pay the whole amount if it is what he agreed he would do.

Yes my numbers are wrong , he is quoting a 150% surcharge on an 800£ bathroom suite(not including labor).
Calculation : 800£ + (150% of 800)£ = 800£ + 1200£ = 2000£.

Sorry for this. It is even more worse looking at it now. Despite this I still have a leaking toilet!

Then forget about the cost of materials.

You need to sit down with him and agree a forward schedule.
Write down what works need doing, then agree dates for when it will be finished and when you will make payments for that work.
If work is not completed on time, payment is not made until it is done. If after a certain time it is not done, you will have the right to hire someone else. But you have to give him a chance to complete it.

Annie1960

I am much more concerned about the fact he is doing gas work when he appears not to be qualified.

gecko19

Annie1960 wrote: »

I am much more concerned about the fact he is doing gas work when he appears not to be qualified.

Hello Annie1960,

I should have checked his certificates - he told me he is registered(and as a self proclaimed master kitchen maker with good work examples I believed him).Only when he was doing the work and I asked him to give the gas safe certificate so that I can start cooking did he say his friend had to come - which then raised the question about his qualification to do the gas work - he said he was going for classes in the weekend.

Given his rate of work/progress I wouldnt be surprised if I had to get it done myself. I bought the hob,extractor and a lot of other fittings. His plan seemed to be do the work and get moving quietly dropping the gas safe certificate - he even told me to use the hob(surely that is what his weekend gas safe classes are teaching him).

Personally, I HATE anyone who does not care about my safety or my family's and looks at only their profit pie chart - I think this is the reason why I have started scrutinizing all aspects of his work. He probably feels caught out as well , which is probably why he is agreed to do reduce the materials cost .

missile

Title should read "Penny pinching client"

Annie1960

gecko19 wrote: »

Hello Doozergirl,

Thanks for getting back. I did ask him about insurance,gas safe and electric registration - he said he passed them all.

A genuine trader will not mind showing you their documents. I agreed with my current builder that all his subcontractors would need to show evidence of PL insurance, and qualifications if relevant.

Only the brickie, plumber and gas engineer had PL insurance. All others (including the electrician) produced documents dated the day they started on my job!

The gas engineer was near to retirement, and said this was the first time he had ever been asked for his ID card, but he did not mind at all showing it as he had it in the van.

If you have strong reasons to believe he installed a gas appliance and is not qualified, you could discuss this with Gas Safe who may investigate.

https://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/who-we-are/

Aylesbury_Duck

gecko19 wrote: »

Personally, I HATE anyone who does not care about my safety or my family's and looks at only their profit pie chart

What a controversial viewpoint...

One could argue that your obsession with pricing and margins is misplaced and it's you who is more concerned with your profit pie-chart than you are with safety. Had you spent more energy on due diligence before this project, properly checking certifications and ability sign work off, instead of spending time finding fault with labour and product pricing, you wouldn't be in the situation where safety is a concern.

Doozergirl

I doubt the builder knows how to create a pie chart. There's only one person with a spreadsheet obsession!