Cowboy Builder doing work without contract

gecko19

Hello All,

As a lot of other cowboy builders, I currently have a builder working in my house. He was charged with replacing the kitchen and bathroom in 2 weeks time for a sum of 20k (15 k material + 5 k labor). However, before the start of the work, I did sum up materials and told him it was too much and he gave me a bloated figure to justify - Up until that point he did give me the option of purchasing materials myself - which I said I was ok with him getting himself - me and my OH choosing the tiles and fittings and him buying them. I made it clear to him that he would need to provide receipts for materials for me to reimburse - in other words if I did over see some parts in budgeting I was ok with it - but obviously I wasn't going to pay a surcharge on everything he bought( I could have gotten it delivered home otherwise, the only reason I asked him to get materials was that I didnt want to block his progress, my previous builder supplied bills and I used to pay as mentioned).

2 weeks was the time given since my family was away - i checked 5 times if he could do the work in the 2 weeks - he said "ofcourse" all five times!


At that point I felt 5k for labor would be a lot of money for 2 weeks work(2 people working at the max). 4 weeks later(2 week after the expected date of finishing of work) he is yet to complete and is now saying he needs the whole 20k, despite me buying some items to fasten the usage of the bathroom and kitchen- he is unwilling to provide receipts. At his own pace, the bathroom would be unusable still.

Fact is the cost break up etc are on whatsapp messages and he is afraid I will pick it up if he did show receipts( I have an excel sheet which shows the actual cost of the items he picked up and the number of units he is picked up etc) - He is afraid that I will find out that he is gaining from labor and materials. He is now threatening to leave the work and pick his stuff up - nothing is complete though the bathroom is functional(almost) and the kitchen is partially functional.


The issue I have is while he has a limited company , I do not have the name of the company and the contract as such is a bunch of text messages and whatsapp messages - He was not willing to sign a contract and I am now afraid if he runs off without completing I have no warranty. He is coming to tonight to discuss the next steps - I can offer money to continue , though I am thinking I now need a contract which will be signed with the exact completion date stated.


Any ideas if the bloated material costs is something I need to pay - eg tiles which cost 50£/m2 cannot be said to be 70£/m2 - is this even a legal thing to do - when I clearly told him that I need receipts to reimburse. Currently for all work+items he has done I probably owe him 1k.

If I were to write a contract out today, should I add the facts that work started on a certain date and that it would end on a certain date?


Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks,
G.

comeandgo

You expected your builder to source, order, take delivery and pay your materials and you don't want to pay anything more than he paid for the items? Do you think that is very fair?

gecko19

comeandgo wrote: »

You expected your builder to source, order, take delivery and pay your materials and you don't want to pay anything more than he paid for the items? Do you think that is very fair?

Hi comeandgo,

Well, if he did mention that materials would cost extra if he sourced it - I would have ordered it before hand to get it delivered home - I would save 5 k in the process, or better still we could have postponed the project altogether till all material was in place.

The issue here is again his bloated numbers , for eg, if 4 packs of tile adhesive is needed at 5 m2 coverage per bag , he says he needs 8 bags . I have an issue with the whole thing , because of the lack of transparency - if you get what I mean - I guess if he mentioned the surcharge for materials , he knew we would drop the project immediately.

Just to mention , all the suppliers have express delivery services for the items he ordered for 20£ - we chose the tiles, I knew the sq.m required and I could get it delivered next day or even could go and get it in my car all set. A 20£*250 is a bit steep though no?

Annie1960

£20k to replace both the kitchen and bathroom, including all labour and materials, does not seem excessive to me. I'm paying more than that on the kitchen alone.

Is the quality of the work done so far good? If so, then it is worth trying to salvage what you can and get him to complete the job.

If you are at an impasse, and both agree to it, it would be a good idea to get a written contract, even at this stage.

If you can, have a clause added that in the event of any dispute, both parties agree to go to an ADR (such as Small Claims Mediation).

Do you have evidence of all funds paid to him so far (such as bank records)?

Labour of only £5k for replacing both the bathroom and kitchen seems very low to me. I suspect he is over-stating the materials cost and under-stating the labour costs, but the total seems about right (unless you have a very small starter kitchen).

I am assuming the work includes all the usual such as:

removing the old kitchen and disposal (a skip costs about £300)
all electrics and certificate
all plumbing
fitting the new kitchen units
plastering if necessary
tiling

Ditto for bathroom.

If he is a ltd co, I can't understand why you don't know what it is called. Is it not written on his van? How did you find him in the first place?

Why was he unwilling to sign a contract? This sounds odd to me, as a written contract protects both parties.

If the quality of the work is good, then my view would be to try to get him to continue. It is very difficult to get someone else to finish off a half-completed job.

In particular, how much electrical work was involved? You will need a certificate from the electrician for this, which will be extremely difficult if a different electrician has to pick up the work - they may have to start from scratch.

Also, two weeks for replacing a kitchen is unrealistic in my experience.

Mistral001

gecko19 wrote: »

Hello All,

As a lot of other cowboy builders, I currently have a builder working in my house. He was charged with replacing the kitchen and bathroom in 2 weeks time for a sum of 20k (15 k material + 5 k labor). Thanks,
G.

That looks like a valid contract. There is an offer to do work at a certain price and it looks like that offer was accepted by you. Even if nothing was written down, it could still be a valid contract as a verbal contract is usually just as valid as a written one. I would seek legal advice before doing anything more.

System

Have you paid more than the agreed amount?
Is he asking for extra money?
In general if a contractor is supplying and fitting materials, they won't provide you with itemised receipts for them. There's an agreed price for the job including materials which you've signed up for, if that's no longer the case then you have to discuss with the contractor, there's nothing in any building contract which says contractors can't mark up goods they are supplying.

another_casualty

Annie beat me to it, but I must ask the question : where did you find him? Did you get other quotes etc ?

It is difficult finding good tradespeople . I saw 3 people a couple of weeks ago to do a quote for my bathroom . They were all totally different people . I lined up a few other quotes , but cancelled once I saw the 3rd guy who is almost finished . Barring a terrible uncertainty I feel like the builder is a decent bloke. I ask him what he thinks , if he has a question to ask me . Being a reputable builder, he should give me the best advice because he has the experience far more than I
I hope you don't mind but, It sounds like you may have been over zealous on pricing. It does sound like a good price he is quoting tbh
I hope that you haven't burnt your bridges with him . I hope I'm not talking out of turn here, but if you could eat humble pie and apologise
( and give him a tip ) then you may get the work done notntoo far off budget
Best of luck

another_casualty

the_r_sole wrote: »

Have you paid more than the agreed amount?
Is he asking for extra money?
In general if a contractor is supplying and fitting materials, they won't provide you with itemised receipts for them. There's an agreed price for the job including materials which you've signed up for, if that's no longer the case then you have to discuss with the contractor, there's nothing in any building contract which says contractors can't mark up goods they are supplying.

Good points .
What is happening with myself : had quote - paid x amount of money up front -.a few days later paid same again- job should finish by the end of the week and I pay him the rest as he would like.
The payments so far were via bank transfer. Requests were done via email and text . No paperwork. Doesn't bother me. I understand that some want paperwork at every stage for vat purposes etc.

phill99

All builders have a mark up on materials. Its how they cover business running costs. What you have said to him is effectively that he should do the job for less as you didn't want to pay a mark up.


TBH I think your attitude is the reason the guy doesn't want to finish the job. And how niave are you not to have a written contract?

Alex1983

phill99 wrote: »

All builders have a mark up on materials. Its how they cover business running costs. What you have said to him is effectively that he should do the job for less as you didn't want to pay a mark up.


TBH I think your attitude is the reason the guy doesn't want to finish the job. And how niave are you not to have a written contract?

This is what I thought reading it, if your questioning everything he purchased then he's probably had enough.

As has been said apart from over running are you happy with the work that's been done and is he asking for more money or still just 20k

another_casualty

phill99 wrote: »

All builders have a mark up on materials. Its how they cover business running costs. What you have said to him is effectively that he should do the job for less as you didn't want to pay a mark up.


TBH I think your attitude is the reason the guy doesn't want to finish the job. And how niave are you not to have a written contract?

Also calling him a cowboy builder may be unfair