Sexual harassment in the workplace

IAmWales

Ryan_F wrote: »

OK, cheers for the advice, it's much appreciated. Certainly I'd rather she wasn't dismissed, but it is very awkward for her right now, being in the same room as him. Apparently it's her father who is itching to tell the local paper... if that happens would she be liable for dismissal?

Obviously from my point of view, I don't want the reputation of the firm sullied. The local paper does have a website, and O'd hate for our company to be linked to the story via an internet search.

I think she needs to get things in perspective. It was a tap on the backside, it's not on but no reason to feel awkward and uncomfortable, and certainly no reason to feel unsafe.

I've been in this and far worse situations, and find some sharp words and then acting as normal far more effective than talk of leaving and suing. I certainly wouldn't be telling my dad about it!

Ryan_F_2

xapprenticex wrote: »

i though male-feminist blue pill white knight simp zealot initially. Im sure youll protect her so she's safe from the ebil man.

I thought, here's someone with such low self-esteem that he has to hurl insults at others to make him feel better about himself, initially.

See how easy it is to make snap judgements about someone you've never met based on scant information...?

trailingspouse

Interesting that we have the full range of common reactions here - amusement, it's not that bad really, worse has happened to me, don't make a big deal of it, don't tell your Dad, you're being dramatic, underplaying what happened ('tap on the backside') by someone who wasn't there, telling the victim to get some perspective.

Can I recommend the Everyday Sexism Project for anyone who thinks a slap on the !!!! is funny, not too bad, not a big deal, not something you should tell a parent, etc etc etc.

https://everydaysexism.com/

And many thanks to all the posters who said that this type of behaviour is not acceptable.

mum2one

From someone who took there employer (ex employer) to employment tribunal based on unfair constructive dismissal, it's a hard long slog.

Mine was based on an incident with a colleague related to sexual discrimination / harresment.

When the incident was reported to hr / my manager / etc I was on maternity leave at the time. There was 100% proof the incident occurred as the daft idiot did it by text... the police were involved, the individual received a police caution.

As for work, he was cleared of the incident......

There was a couple of reasons I couldn't return to my job, one being i couldn't work with the colleague concerned.... the companies suggestion, I move to another premises, 40 miles Away...

My tribunal was very complicated, ended up in employment tribunals in London... took 2 yrs to go through. My legal aid bill was 20k...

As for press... don't even think of going there.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

Ryan_F wrote: »

I thought, here's someone with such low self-esteem that he has to hurl insults at others to make him feel better about himself, initially.

See how easy it is to make snap judgements about someone you've never met based on scant information...?

To be fair your snap judgement is right on the money, though.

FredG

I would encourage her to ask anyone else who'd had similar problems with the guy to report it through the proper channels.

Reading through this thread and finding it astounding how many people telling someone who they've never met how they should react to "just" a slap on the bum.

The guy appears to be a repeat offender judging by the initial post. While I find the go to the papers/constructive dismissal route a little excessive at this stage I can understand why the victim and those related to the victim would be furious.

Seems that a serial lech gets more leeway than the person who's been assaulted. Massive trivialisation of unacceptable behaviour.

Undervalued

trailingspouse wrote: »

Interesting that we have the full range of common reactions here - amusement, it's not that bad really, worse has happened to me, don't make a big deal of it, don't tell your Dad, you're being dramatic, underplaying what happened ('tap on the backside') by someone who wasn't there, telling the victim to get some perspective.

Were you there?

If not then I fail to see how you can possibly know whether it is being underplayed or not?

The employer, after receiving a complaint and conducting a disciplinary process, issued a formal warning. That may well be a perfectly fair response taking into account all of the relevant factors. I don't know but nor, I suspect, do you.

sangie595

Ryan_F wrote: »

He's quite hotheaded and overprotective, apparently, as parents are wont to be. Apparently the girl had to convince her father not to enter work premises and punch the accused in the face!!!

I will certainly advise her that going to the press is definitely not the way to go!!!

Thanks everyone for the advice here tonight. I was admittedly a little rattled by the whole scenario but your pointed words of calm and sense have helped clear my head.

Head down, back to work, keep out of it - definitely the most sensible plan here.

May I point out that, in the first instance, child labour is illegal in the UK. So I have to assume that the person you are speaking about is a woman. A grown up. Not a "girl". And unlike pretty much everyone else, it appears, has acted like a grown up and done something appropriate about the unacceptable behaviour of her colleague. The employer has responded appropriately. And now the matter is closed.

If she leaves and sues for constructive dismissal, then all she will get will be a bill. It is not for individuals to dictate the outcome of a grievance against another party - he has been dealt with, and that is the end of the matter. If you don't like an outcome, then yes, you may leave - but don't expect any compensation for doing so, because that won't happen. Even good cases of constructive dismissal are hard to win, and this isn't anywhere near a good case.

And I agree with trailingspouse that any form of discriminatory or harassing behaviour in the workplace is unacceptable. But that does not mean that everyone guilty of such things should be dismissed out of hand. Even criminals get more leniency than that. Unless the incident is significantly more serious, then the employer is quite correct that they need to work on correcting that behaviour. We live in a society that is full of "-ism's", and unlike some people I don't despair of that. We are becoming more aware of our responsibilities towards each other, and what the impact of our prejudices and wrong ideas are. But we are nowhere near "there" yet. If we simply refuse to have any dealings with anybody who doesn't come up to our standards, it'll lead to very lonely lives. Personally, I am incensed by people who call grown women "girls".

If every sexist male (or even female - it isn't a gender based trait) was dismissed, then there would be a crisis in recruitment - and very high levels of unemployment. Hopefully this particular male has learned his lesson. If not, then no doubt there will be consequences. But most people are not that stupid as to wish to find out.

But if we institute dismissal for every sexist incident, then we actually trivialise the most serious cases where dismissal is warranted. And we risk introducing the "may as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb" mentality. The demonstration of where that leads is best demonstrated by drawing your attention to countries which thought they were helping women by introducing life and/or the death penalty for rape. What that got them was more women murdered, because if the penalty is the same, then you may as well leave no witness.

One final point, as someone who has many times had to represent people in exactly that guys situation - if you think it's uncomfortable for everyone else, just remember that he has to go back to work and work every day knowing that everyone around him knows about his disciplinary, and that everybody new joining will be told within the first week. That's tough luck in my view. But it's also part of the price. He will probably be feeling a lot more uncomfortable than everyone else - especially now that he knows how many people have been waiting for his fall.

fairy_lights

IAmWales wrote: »

I think she needs to get things in perspective. It was a tap on the backside, it's not on but no reason to feel awkward and uncomfortable, and certainly no reason to feel unsafe.

I've been in this and far worse situations, and find some sharp words and then acting as normal far more effective than talk of leaving and suing. I certainly wouldn't be telling my dad about it!

Seriously? If one of my colleague slapped my !!!! I'd feel pretty damn uncomfortable being around them after that, and if the company didn't take the issue seriously then why would I feel particularly safe?

sangie595

fairy_lights wrote: »

Seriously? If one of my colleague slapped my !!!! I'd feel pretty damn uncomfortable being around them after that, and if the company didn't take the issue seriously then why would I feel particularly safe?

But they did take it seriously. And why would you feel unsafe? Sexual harassment should not be trivialized - but nor should it be dramatised. There is nothing to suggest that this person is a risk to women. We are talking about an idiot, not a predator.