Roundabout advice

bugslet

EssexExile wrote: »

Just to be on the safe side I never go onto a roundabout beside anything big, especially an articulated lorry. Get round first or wait a second, not all HGV drivers are as good as I was.;)

^^ That

angrycrow wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not as clear cut as saying the lorry was in the wrong lane.

Section 187 of the highway code states

"long vehicles (including those towing trailers). These might have to take a different course or straddle lanes either approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals."

Hgv's often have no choice but to go all the way around in the left lane and as long as they signal they are allowed to do so. This is why drivers are, or should be taught not to pass lorrys on roundabouts and to hold back and give the space.

And ^^that.

Been in haulage all my life and as Essex says, I tend to hang back at roundabouts and find out where the truck is going, especially a foreign vehicle that a. maybe lost and b. does not have the same visibility down the right hand side.

I do think the car test should have an element of understanding what trucks need to do, because otherwise it leaves car drivers to learn by experience.

Ultimately it's down to the Insurance Company though.

Patrick05021989

Stator,
Yes - basically there are no road markings.

I suppose it is just a waiting game now.
Even if the insurance rules the blame in my favoure, I don't think I will ever attempt going side by side with a HGV again!.


It might be a while, but I will come back to give you all an update.

deaston

Patrick05021989 wrote: »

Good afternoon all,

I am looking for a second opinion on a correct procedure when driving over a particular roundabout.
Based on the picture from the link below, would you say it was acceptable to use either lane for going straight over this roundabout ( Exit 1 )?

imgur.com/a/p8OfR


Thank you very much in advance.
Patrick

If the lorry was indicating right, then I think you are in the wrong for not being more aware and driving more defensively - especially considering it was a left-hand drive vehicle.

From what you've said, you came up the right side of the lorry before it (as it?) entered the roundabout, so were aware of its presence. If it was indicating right, you essentially overtook the lorry as it was warning you of its intentions to enter your lane.

As you left the roundabout you should have been more aware of the lorry's position.

The only way I see the lorry being in the wrong is if it wasn't indicating and overtook you on the inside which, from what you've said, wasn't the case.

If it wasn't indicating, I think it'd be fair to assume it was going straight over.

Personally, I never overtake on a roundabout unless the lanes are very, very clearly defined. Too often you see people drift between the lanes.

Patrick05021989

The lorry was certainly not indicating any intention to carry on driving around the roundabout.
I had my 4 year old in the car with me, was on a way to an animal farm for a family day out and believe it or not I was not intending to crash.

Had the lorry indicated ( with me coming from behind it on approach to the roundabout ) I would have certainly seen it and not ignored it.

As you mentioned above, it was fair to assume that the lorry was intending to go straight over.

Everyone tells me about HGV's having to take different routes/ lanes to perform maneuvers etc. but no one so far explained when this actually applies?

Is down to how the driver feels on the day?
As I mentioned above, this is a large roundabout on a dual carriegway, within less than 0.5 miles of M6 entrance / exit, and Crew Truck Stop.

With this in mind I am sure that the HGV in question had no reason to take a different route and their judgment was wrong on this occasion.

Thanks

deaston

Patrick05021989 wrote: »

The lorry was certainly not indicating any intention to carry on driving around the roundabout.
I had my 4 year old in the car with me, was on a way to an animal farm for a family day out and believe it or not I was not intending to crash.

Had the lorry indicated ( with me coming from behind it on approach to the roundabout ) I would have certainly seen it and not ignored it.

As you mentioned above, it was fair to assume that the lorry was intending to go straight over.

Everyone tells me about HGV's having to take different routes/ lanes to perform maneuvers etc. but no one so far explained when this actually applies?

Is down to how the driver feels on the day?
As I mentioned above, this is a large roundabout on a dual carriegway, within less than 0.5 miles of M6 entrance / exit, and Crew Truck Stop.

With this in mind I am sure that the HGV in question had no reason to take a different route and their judgment was wrong on this occasion.

Thanks

Then I'm no expert but I'd say he pulled into your lane without indicating.

HGVs can't turn such a sharp circle as might be necessary using the correct outside lane to turn right on the roundabout, hence they use the inside lane but should indicate to warn other road users that they're doing so. The Highway Code does explain this and also warns about giving HGVs extra space on a roundabout.

Patrick05021989

Thank you Deaston,

Although I've never driven ( or even sat in ) an HGV, I can honestly appreciate that the turning circle can be a massive issue for such a long vehicle.

The fact that he was not indicating is probably worth as much as my opinion, since he will most likely say that he was and there are no witness's to prove otherwise.

What I am trying to understand though is whether they are allowed to use whichever lane/wherever "THEY" feel like?, or is there any particular guidance for doing so?
( Type of road, type of roundabout etc. ).



Many Thanks
Patrick

MEM62

forgotmyname wrote: »

You were to the right of a LHD vehicle on a roundabout? Always a risky place to be.

Take some defensive driving lessons.

+1 on that.

Just because an accident may not be considered you fault does not mean that you could not have avoided it. Any foreign registered vehicle should be considered unpredictable and ignorant of the customs and rules governing the use of UK roads. Placing yourself in a position where the driver of an LGV is unlikely to see you is foolish at best. The ' I am going to carry on regardless because I am in the right ' approach taken by some drivers will eventually end in an unfortunate outcome.

Patrick05021989

Just because an accident may not be considered you fault does not mean that you could not have avoided it. Any foreign registered vehicle should be considered unpredictable and ignorant of the customs and rules governing the use of UK roads. Placing yourself in a position where the driver of an LGV is unlikely to see you is foolish at best. The ' I am going to carry on regardless because I am in the right ' approach taken by some drivers will eventually end in an unfortunate outcome

Fair point, and taken on board.
We all very often learn on our mistakes.

Although I am convinced that I am not to blame ( as far as the principle behind the accident goes ) I will not put myself in that position again.

SimonD316

Patrick05021989 wrote: »

Good afternoon all,

I am looking for a second opinion on a correct procedure when driving over a particular roundabout.
Based on the picture from the link below, would you say it was acceptable to use either lane for going straight over this roundabout ( Exit 1 )?

imgur.com/a/p8OfR


Thank you very much in advance.
Patrick

I actually know that road and roundabout quite well, and used it this morning.

There are no road markings to indicate any lanes are for straight on or right only, and 90% of drivers in the right hand lane go do straight on.

I've seen lorry's take a lot of the road around there even going straight on so would always hang back in any case, but personally I don't think they should have been going right from the left hand lane.

Unfortunately without any witnesses it's going to be difficult to prove either way so it's likely to go as 50/50.

A couple of years ago we witnessed a similar accident at the roundabout before this one. An Audi A1 in the left hand lane wanted to come off at the third exit (right), and a BMW 6 series in the right hand lane wanted to use the second exit (straight on). They crashed on exit 2, and even though the road markings indicate left hand lane is exits 1 and 2, right hand lane is exits 2 and 3 it would have been 50/50, but with our statement it was deemed as the Audi's fault.

Patrick05021989

I actually know that road and roundabout quite well, and used it this morning.

There are no road markings to indicate any lanes are for straight on or right only, and 90% of drivers in the right hand lane go do straight on.

I've seen lorry's take a lot of the road around there even going straight on so would always hang back in any case, but personally I don't think they should have been going right from the left hand lane.

Unfortunately without any witnesses it's going to be difficult to prove either way so it's likely to go as 50/50.

A couple of years ago we witnessed a similar accident at the roundabout before this one. An Audi A1 in the left hand lane wanted to come off at the third exit (right), and a BMW 6 series in the right hand lane wanted to use the second exit (straight on). They crashed on exit 2, and even though the road markings indicate left hand lane is exits 1 and 2, right hand lane is exits 2 and 3 it would have been 50/50, but with our statement it was deemed as the Audi's fault.

That's exactly my fear, due to lack of witness's.