Add your feedback on energy supplier Powershop

fewkeste

fredandwilma wrote: »

Any power pack or offer purchased, can only be used for the "relevant" month?

Which means if you opt for option (b), or using power packs, you are never, ever, going to use the exact amount of energy you have paid for in advance.

As i understand all this, you can't "carry" a power pack from one month to another, leaving you potentially, with a surplus of energy you have paid for, but can't use.

I need to set the record straight for you. You are wrong with some of your assumptions.:)

@Powershop rep - please correct/contradict me if I state something incorrectly.

Regarding Future Packs.

They become valid on the first of the month they have been named after. i.e. The November Future Pack becomes available to your account on 1st November and will cover consumption in the accounting period that ENDS in November.

In my case for example, my new (December) accounting period starts on 4th November so my November Future pack covers my consumption from the start of my November accounting period (which starts on the 5th October and ends on 3rd November.) The credit colours the covered days in green on your Power Organiser calender, starting with the first day of the November accounting period which is 5th October.

So it sort of backfills unfunded days in October - in my case starting on 5th October and running into November.

Future Packs are the only packs that have a 'valid from' date.

IMPORTANT POINT.

Any Future Pack credit left on the account after the period they are named after sits on the account as credit to be used for the next accounting period. You DO NOT lose the credit. You never lose left over credit from any type of Powerpack purchase.

All other packs whenever purchased can 'backfill' any unfunded days before they were purchased.

The best way to get you head around the model is that you are filling a 'pot' with credit to be used to pay for your consumption.

Sometimes special packs appear that will offer X pounds of credit for Y pounds of money. For example, one current special for me offers £6.56 worth of credit for £5.71 - which represents a 13% saving. So, I've put £6.56 credit into my 'pot' but it's only cost me £5.71 to do so.

Now, when my account gets 'settled' on 2/8/17, any credit in my 'pot' gets used to cover unfunded days in the past.

Here's an important tip.

If after all the Powerpacks I've been buying (except Future Packs) have been offset against the 'debt' I've run up and I still have unfunded days, I COULD by Standard Powerpacks to top up the difference. But I would be guessing how much I need and I might overbuy Standard Power. I think the best thing is to let Powershop buy any Standard Power you need to fill unfunded days as they will only buy what is needed to cover the unfunded days and no more.

Important tip:

When an account is up and running properly, correct buying of Future Packs and in-month Special Packs means you should never find yourself in a postion where you need to buy Standard Power Top Up packs.

@Powershop rep - correct me on the above point if I'm wrong.

I hope the above goes some way to alleviate your concerns. It's all very daunting when you don't have an account but becomes so much clearer when you do have one.

Basically you're just filling up a credit 'pot' with discounted credit to pay for your usage. The amount of discount on the credit you buy changes with:

1. The time of year.

2. If you are buying for your immediate needs or for some period in the future.

For example - the special pack I referred to above was 13% discount but the November Future Packs I've bought are 23.5% discount.

I hope the above helps.

fewkeste

neilsedaka wrote: »

Hi MSE Laura, sorry I am late in this reply because I did not receive any notifications until yesterday that this thread is still active. I now see that the thread is very active

I initiated my switch to Powershop on 11th June because Powershop were at the top of my list of results on Cheap Energy Club on that day and I fancied trying something new and innovative. The switch activated on 12th July.

Now when I do a new comparison, I am electricity only, Powershop are nowhere to be seen in my list of 148 results.

Another anomaly. When I set my current tariff in Cheap Energy Club there is only Powershop "Early Saver Promise July 2017" and "Standard" to pick from, not my "Early Saver Promise June 2017".

I think Powershop are being treated unfairly in PCWs because of the way their offer is structured. Like you I did a search (on the Which? comparison website) and the only tariffs I could select were the two you mentioned.

My 'effective' tariff is Pioneers (Shopper.) The problem is my base tariff is the standard tariff but what I will actually achieve by judicious buying of Powerpacks is the Pioneers (Shopper) rate.

The problem (as Hengus has previously alluded to) is that Pioneers (Shopper) is not a tariff in the traditional sense it's an achievable discount off the standard tariff.

Because my 'effective tariff' is not a real tariff, PS are not allowed to show it, only the Standard tariff and the latest Easy Saver Promise tariff. That means I select the standard tariff from the drop down menu which makes the comparison software think my current deal is more expensive than it really is.

Therefore, they are being made to look more expensive than they really are which is unfair.

It stems from the fact they are different and their way of doing things is not easily and fairly shown/compared in the traditional way of comparing energy suppliers.

I contacted MSE and they are looking into it but can't at the moment show what 'effective tariff' can be achieved by buying Powerpacks.

PS are unfortunately a victim of their unique way of doing things.

I hope they are talking to Ofgem to sort something out

geoffW

What I don't like about Powershops Powerpacks is that you are relying on them to keep giving you a decent discount (20 to 30%) to make it worth your while, they could stop or reduce them at any time.
The Easy Saver Promise is poor compared to many other companies tariffs.

fewkeste

geoffW wrote: »

What I don't like about Powershops Powerpacks is that you are relying on them to keep giving you a decent discount (20 to 30%) to make it worth your while, they could stop or reduce them at any time.
The Easy Saver Promise is poor compared to many other companies tariffs.

The discounts will have to be 20+ % in the winter months to balance out the lower 12-15% in the summer months. If PS reduce the % discount on Powerpacks below the level that would give an overall annual 22%, then people's annual cost would be higher than the next cheapest supplier and they would leave - simples:)

fredandwilma

Thanks for your detailed response fewkeste.


I realise the easiest way is to look at all purchases as building a credit pot, however, regardless of the dates and one month running into another, you still only have a one month time period, to use that credit, or any time prior to the expiry of that credit? Which means if you get your sums wrong, you could still lose some credit? At best, there are varying conditions surrounding each Powershop 'offer'.

I still feel the Powershop t&c's are less than transparent.

Powershop does only offer one tariff and that's the Standard Tariff.

All possible discounts and savings are currently theoretical in the UK, and it does say some people will make savings and some won't.

https://blog.powershop.com.au/powershop-pricing-explained/

NB - I realise this is an Aussie blog from last year, but it's the only information i can find remotely regarding pricing structure.

It does say here:

What happens if I purchase too much?

If you purchase too many units, we credit your account with the amount of any unused units once the pack expires.

Which appears to explain all? But why the need to credit your account with the amount of unused units once the pack expires if you already have the credit in your account?

The pack has expired, what time frames are we talking about, here?

If anything, I would imagine any credits would be at Standard Tariff rates.

There are a few types of Special Packs. Firstly there are the ones that are always in your shop, like the Online Saver. The Online Saver provides you with the best possible discount that’s always available. To receive this discount, you need to log in to your online account or smartphone app and purchase your desired amount of units. This has to be done within the timeframe outlined in your Buy Now and Save More email to secure this discount in time for your Account Review. There is also an equivalent GreenPower pack available – the Green Online Saver.

For the Special Packs - This has to be done within the time frame outlined in your Buy Now and Save More email to secure this discount in time for your Account Review.

The next type are ‘spot’ Specials. These are released every week or so, and are only available for a limited amount of time. They vary from 15% to 24% above the Standard Saver discount, however the discount is on a set amount of estimated usage.

'Spot' Specials - In this case the discount is on a set amount of estimated usage.

It will be interesting to see feedback further down the line, particularly from consumers who are less 'informed' energy consumers.

I feel there are still too many if's and but's for me to consider using Powershop. I don't want to be spending my time trying to work out which is the best deal to achieve 'potential' discounts. It's bad enough, the time I'm spending on this thread.

It's difficult to see how this all works until you become a Powershop customer, as you don't have all the information at your disposal.

Perhaps someone from the Powershop team can confirm that no one ever loses any credits from power they have pre purchased, regardless of which 'offer' they have purchased?

We need more comprehensive / specific information about the terms of each 'offer', and in particular, 'rolling' credit.

System

The problem trying to compare PS UK with their equivalents in NZ and AU is that the supply pricing model is different. Increasingly, NZ seems to be using ToU tariffs and AU includes FITs in the price offer. What is clear from reading the various feedback forums is that there are winners and losers and no single agreed powerpack purchasing strategy. If there was, I am sure that someone would have developed an Buy/No Buy app by now. I also get the impression that PS is not doing that well in AU: that said, it was a NZ import modified for the AU market ( which seems to be broken down by States).

fewkeste

@fredandwilma

You are looking for bogey men that are not there:)

fredandwilma wrote: »

.... however, regardless of the dates and one month running into another, you still only have a one month time period, to use that credit, or any time prior to the expiry of that credit? Which means if you get your sums wrong, you could still lose some credit?

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Once you've bought credit it sits on your account until you use it.

You NEVER EVER EVER lose credit or have it expire!

Any credit you've bought sits in your 'pot' at the enhanced value until it's used. i.e. if you bought £11.50 credit for only £10, the £11.50 credit stays in your 'pot' at the value of £11.50.

The only exception to this would be when you leave - you would get back the original £10 (not the enhanced £11.50 value.)

fredandwilma wrote: »

Which appears to explain all? But why the need to credit your account with the amount of unused units once the pack expires if you already have the credit in your account?

This has been badly phrased - they don't credit your account with unused credit - your unused credit just sits in your 'pot' until needed.

fredandwilma wrote: »

If anything, I would imagine any credits would be at Standard Tariff rates.

WRONG

The credit sits in your 'pot' at the 'enhanced' value.

Special packs once purchased can be used for current in month debt or can 'backfill' any previous debt.

Future Packs become available on the 1st of the month after which they are named. So for example the Future Pack named November, the moment 1st November comes along, it becomes available to cover the accounting period of October that ends in November. It might cover debt prior to October (I'm not sure) rather like the blocks building up in Tetris if that makes sense.

What isn't used of the November Future pack would sit on the account (in your 'pot') ready to be used for the next accounting period (unless it can be used to 'backfill' any debt prior to the November accounting period.) @Powershop rep can you clarify.

The point is credit never expires, you never lose it and it never gets credited back to your account at the original 'undiscounted' price unless you are leaving.

There is no trick or conspiracy going on here - just join and give it a go. Once you have an account it all becomes much clearer. No-one is trying to rip you off - it's just different to what most people are used to - that's all.

@Powershop rep - please correct any points I've made that are incorrect.

System

@fewkeste I know that you are fully bought into the Powerpack offer. I am not as convinced as you are that I will achieve the projected savings. Posts from suppliers on forums have no standing in law. If Powershop was 100% convinced that the projected savings can be achieved by buying Powerpacks then there would be no need for the Easy Saver Promise. They would just guarantee, in the terms and conditions, that a saving of 'x'% could be achieved on the SVT by buying Powerpacks. If Powershop drops the discount on all packs to 5% tomorrow, there were do you stand contractually? I am not suggesting that they will, but you are rather looking at this offer through 'rose tinted' glasses. Powershop UK is a business and it has fixed and variable costs like any other business.

Remember. Powershop UK could add 10% to its SVT next week: what % discount would you need then to match the 'tariff' that you have repeatedly said that you have signed up to? What makes you think that Powershop UK will then increase its Powerpack discounts to ensure that you achieve the Which Switch tariff?

fewkeste

Hengus wrote: »

@fewkeste I know that you are fully bought into the Powerpack offer. I am not as convinced as you are that I will achieve the projected savings. Posts from suppliers on forums have no standing in law. If Powershop was 100% convinced that the projected savings can be achieved by buying Powerpacks then there would be no need for the Easy Saver Promise. They would just guarantee, in the terms and conditions, that a saving of 'x'% could be achieved on the SVT by buying Powerpacks. If Powershop drops the discount on all packs to 5% tomorrow, there were do you stand contractually? I am not suggesting that they will, but you are rather looking at this offer through 'rose tinted' glasses. Powershop UK is a business and it has fixed and variable costs like any other business.

Remember. Powershop UK could add 10% to its SVT next week: what % discount would you need then to match the 'tariff' that you have repeatedly said that you have signed up to? What makes you think that Powershop UK will then increase its Powerpack discounts to ensure that you achieve the Which Switch tariff?

@Hengus - I understand your concerns and this is my response. I am on a variable tariff with a supposedly achievable discount of around 20-22% by buying Powerpacks and Future Packs.

If PS increase their underlying SVT then I will simply recalculate my annual cost using the 20-22% off the new higher Pioneers (Shopper) achievable rate and, if it comes to more than the next cheapest deal, I will move.

If PS don't offer the % discounted Powerpacks in the winter period that ultimately lead to an approximately 20-22% discount overall, then I will simply recalculate my annual cost using the actual % off achieved to give the new higher Pioneers (Shopper) achieved rate and, if it comes to more than the next cheapest deal, I will move.

As of today, the next cheapest supplier to my PS deal is only £33.70 more expensive. My projected annual cost with PS is about £819.40. If I 'incur' an increase of as little as 4.11% on my PS costs then I move. I move to a fixed 12 month tariff.

The PS approach is a new way of doing things and it does require goodwill and trust on both sides.

I am a tremendous person to have on your side when a great deal is being offered.

I deleted what I was going to put here.;)

In a market where you have savvy customers who can easily calculate their projected annual cost, if you move prices to their disadvantage, you will lose a good proportion of those customers.

PS customers are not 'normal' customers. They are likely to be of a 'higher calibre'. i.e. they are likely to be more aware, more informed, more able to calculate the consequences of any adverse changes to prices/tariffs/discounts to their annual costs and more likely to readily 'jump ship' if changes to the offer negatively impact them.

PS will likely think very carefully before instigating changes that impact negatively on the deal their customers expect.

Just like 'if you build it - they will come,' 'if you rip them off - they will leave'. It's the nature of the energy marketplace.

PS typical customers are not 'run of the mill' energy customers - to understand and exploit to the maximum the offer PS makes, the customers have to be engaged and understand their consumption and bills. Customers like that don't just sit idly by and suffer price rises and let disappearing/diminishing discounts happen - they take action and move.

It takes an engaged customer to understand and get the best out of a PS supply contract. That same person would not simply sit there and suffer disadvantageous prices or promised discounts that don't materialise - they would leave - PS must know this.

neilsedaka

fewkeste wrote: »

As of today, the next cheapest supplier to my PS deal is only £33.70 more expensive.

I am wondering how you know that? Are you able to enter your pre-July Powershop tariff into the PCW that you are using?