Add your feedback on energy supplier Powershop

JD1970

I'm confused. I use about 9500 Kw electricity per year. I know that seems a lot, but we don't have gas central heating, so much our use is down to heating. I know that ideally, we'd get central heating installed, but that isn't affordable right now. My concern with Power Shop is this; I can't afford to pay up front for several months worth of electricity, but it seems that the greatest savings are aimed at those who can. As someone with little disposable income (no benefits), how can I expect to save money with Power Shop, especially as winter is looming and that is the time that my usage increases massively? Any clarification would be welcome.

fredandwilma

Hengus wrote: »

F&W, you are right. After another hour of playing around with figures, I do have some idea; however, I am fortunate to have the time to sit and play around with a computer spreadsheet.

The PS app would be a lot more useful if the end user could input future monthly usage figures. If the PS computer is basing its offers on the App then I can see a shortfall in the discounts offered.

I rest my case.

JD1970 wrote: »

I'm confused. I use about 9500 Kw electricity per year. I know that seems a lot, but we don't have gas central heating, so much our use is down to heating. I know that ideally, we'd get central heating installed, but that isn't affordable right now. My concern with Power Shop is this; I can't afford to pay up front for several months worth of electricity, but it seems that the greatest savings are aimed at those who can. As someone with little disposable income (no benefits), how can I expect to save money with Power Shop, especially as winter is looming and that is the time that my usage increases massively? Any clarification would be welcome.

You can't.

My argument all along has been this method of purchasing energy to make (potential / unproven) savings, is for those who have the disposable income to do so, in the first place.

There are still some relatively good fixes available at the moment, as an alternative.

fewkeste

Hengus wrote: »

If only it was that simple. Today, I have purchased 2 small packs of energy at a total cost of £4.94. Based on the last couple of months, I can expect similar small packs at the beginning of each month. Mid month I bought £1.59's worth of energy (another small pack). I could buy a Jumbo Pack today for £8.23 (worth £8.87 = discount of 7.3%).

The App gives an assumed monthly usage cost but as I have PV Solar it is wide of the mark for the Winter months. It assumes that I will spend c.£130 on electricity up until mid Jan 18. Yet another spreadsheet has appeared on my iPad which based on the average monthly consumption for the past 2 years shows that the cost through until mid January is more likely to be £180: a shortfall of £50 on the SVT. In theory then if I purchase £40 worth of December packs (worth £52.20), then I am sorted until mid January; however, this doesn't take into account the funny little gimmicky packs that appear from time to time.

To complicate matters further, I have already paid £183 less 2 a bit months of usage which gives a credit balance of £130. Do I really want to go back up to £180's worth of credit which seems the norm to secure the highest discounts on meaningful usage packages?

F&W, you are right. After another hour of playing around with figures, I do have some idea; however, I am fortunate to have the time to sit and play around with a computer spreadsheet.

The PS app would be a lot more useful if the end user could input future monthly usage figures. If the PS computer is basing its offers on the App then I can see a shortfall in the discounts offered.

Surely buying 5 X £10 December Future Packs @23.4% discount is a no brainer isn't it? It beats all the silly little Special Packs into a cocked hat - even if some of them do have higher discounts. The thing is (as you know) this 23.4% discounted credit sits on your account until you need it - it far outweighs the value for money of the paltry discount on the monthly Jumbo Packs and the monetary value of the silly distracting appetiser packs. It all depends on being able to put your concerns about PS going belly up to one side.

rob879

This is an update to my previous post of 24th June.

I switched to Powershop in May as they were the cheapest provider (at the time) on both MSE and Which comparison sites. At the time of switching, Powershop quoted me an 'Easy Saver' rate, which was around 18% cheaper than their 'Standard' rate – and would be obtained by ‘shopping for Powerpack offers’.

Although I think I’ve optimised my Powerpack purchases (both for current and future months), my experience to date has been very disappointing as my actual discount for the first 3 ½ months has been 12.5% - not the 18% percent I was expecting.

Looking at the future purchases, I am unlikely to get anywhere near my target discount for September or October either - although I should beat it in November and December – but, by then, I will have had 5 ½ months of under-achievement.

So, my initial point stands: I’m not convinced Powershop will deliver their quoted electricity rate – and I think there are cheaper alternatives.

Another drawback to Powershop is that, in order to achieve the maximum discount, you have to purchase Powerpacks up to 4 months in advance. Currently, I am around £160 in credit due to advance purchases for September to December!

fewkeste

rob879 wrote: »

This is an update to my previous post of 24th June.

I switched to Powershop in May as they were the cheapest provider (at the time) on both MSE and Which comparison sites. At the time of switching, Powershop quoted me an 'Easy Saver' rate, which was around 18% cheaper than their 'Standard' rate – and would be obtained by ‘shopping for Powerpack offers’.

Although I think I’ve optimised my Powerpack purchases (both for current and future months), my experience to date has been very disappointing as my actual discount for the first 3 ½ months has been 12.5% - not the 18% percent I was expecting.

Looking at the future purchases, I am unlikely to get anywhere near my target discount for September or October either - although I should beat it in November and December – but, by then, I will have had 5 ½ months of under-achievement.

So, my initial point stands: I’m not convinced Powershop will deliver their quoted electricity rate – and I think there are cheaper alternatives.

Another drawback to Powershop is that, in order to achieve the maximum discount, you have to purchase Powerpacks up to 4 months in advance. Currently, I am around £160 in credit due to advance purchases for September to December!

Yes I share your concerns. Like you it was the Which? comparison website figures that made Powershop attractive to me. Like you I expected to achieve my particular 20-22% discount from the start. I didn't realise that it was an annual expected achievable discount. However with summer Future Pack discounts in the 12-15% range I expected the November and December Future Packs to be a higher discount than the 23.5/23.4% they are if the annual average of 20 -22% is to be achieved.

My next cheapest supplier is Iresa but having read the thread about them I don't think I'd want the grief.

If Powershop are not able to allow us to achieve the savings we expected to make, then I imagine a lot of people will leave in a mass exodus. Powershop customers by their very nature are probably more aware of their consumption than typical energy customers. Consequently many PS customers (who are perfectly capable of calculating their anticipated bills) may soon start to question if the promoted achievable discounts are in fact not achievable and act accordingly.

System

rob879 wrote: »

Another drawback to Powershop is that, in order to achieve the maximum discount, you have to purchase Powerpacks up to 4 months in advance. Currently, I am around £160 in credit due to advance purchases for September to December!

Five weeks on, Ofgem has yet to respond to a very simple question from me about consumer credit protection for PS Energy Limited's (trading as Powershop) customers. The matter has been referred to Ofgem's Consumer and Legal teams for consideration. The issue is that PSEnergy Limited is not a licensed energy supplier: it is a LIMITED company set up by NPower. I fear that I may have opened up a Pandora's box as other similar supplier/agent relationships exist in the domestic energy market.

* Under English Law, parent companies (UK/foreign) are not normally liable for the debts of a Limited company.

I was rather hoping that Ofgem would respond with a simple 'yes. your credit balance is fully covered' which is the position that PS Energy Limited has, in all fairness, stated is the case earlier in this thread.

fewkeste

Hengus wrote: »

Five weeks on, Ofgem has yet to respond to a very simple question from me about consumer credit protection for PS Energy Limited's (trading as Powershop) customers. The matter has been referred to Ofgem's Consumer and Legal teams for consideration. The issue is that PSEnergy Limited is not a licensed energy supplier: it is a LIMITED company set up by NPower. I fear that I may have opened up a Pandora's box as other similar supplier/agent relationships exist in the domestic energy market.

* Under English Law, parent companies (UK/foreign) are not normally liable for the debts of a Limited company.

I was rather hoping that Ofgem would respond with a simple 'yes. your credit balance is fully covered' which is the position that PS Energy Limited has, in all fairness, stated is the case earlier in this thread.

Yes and as per rob879's comments - to get anything like a decent discount we have to purchase Future Packs several months in advance. I don't mind doing that (given current interest rates) provided I know my money is safe. If there's a risk then that's a different ball game altogether. It's very disturbing that Ofgem haven't got straight back to you - maybe because it's such an unusual arrangement.

Is it worth prodding Ofgem to come up with their answer?

System

fewkeste wrote: »

Yes and as per rob879's comments - to get anything like a decent discount we have to purchase Future Packs several months in advance. I don't mind doing that (given current interest rates) provided I know my money is safe. If there's a risk then that's a different ball game altogether. It's very disturbing that Ofgem haven't got straight back to you - maybe because it's such an unusual arrangement.

Is it worth prodding Ofgem to come up with their answer?

If only it were that simple. Sending them an e-mail just elicits a standard system response and it can take them weeks to respond in any formal way.

fewkeste

Hengus wrote: »

If only it were that simple. Sending them an e-mail just elicits a standard system response and it can take them weeks to respond in any formal way.

I see - the typical Public Sector mentality - Don't take responsibility for anything, don't take a risk and always cover your !!!!:mad:

I've seen it all before.

I wonder who Ofgem reports to? Would it be worth poking them?

What about asking Martin to ask them to get a move on? I imagine a quick email from him might elicit a rapid response given the audience he has at his fingertips.

I get the impression that many of these 'watchdogs' are staffed by people from the very industry they are supposed to regulate or else they are career civil servants looking for a cushy number. Obviously ex industry personnel helps with inside industry information but it worries me that the 'unofficial old boys network' might be at work in some situations.

Whenever I've seen staff from the various regulators interviewed they always seem a bit 'limp' - we need tigers not bunny rabbits in these organisations that are supposed to protect us and our rights.

System

Seven weeks and two attempts later, Ofgem has now responded to my question about consumer credit protection by saying that PSEnergy Ltd is an NPower ‘white label supplier’. It follows that NPower is responsible for all Powershop consumer credits.

However, having looked at the regulations, I am not sure that I would come to the same determination. For example, M and S Energy is a white label supplier of SSE. A quick check of the ts and CS shows this:

Quote:
This Contract is between you and SSE Energy Supply Limited for electricity and/or Southern Electric Gas Limited for gas for M&S Energy.

Unquote

It follows that all M and S Energy customers are actually on contract to SSE. The same type of wording is used in the Sainsbury’s Energy contract where customers are actually in contract with British Gas. No ambiguity whatsoever.

Confusingly, Powershop’s contract states the following:

Quote:
Powershop is a trading name of PS Energy UK Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Npower Limited. Electricity is supplied under this contract by Npower Limited and gas is supplied by Npower Gas Limited on behalf of Powershop. PS Energy UK Limited is the agent of Npower Limited and Npower Gas Limited for Powershop customers.

Unquote

My layman’s reading of the above is that my electricity contract is with PS Energy Ltd - a Limited company - with energy supplied under this contract by NPower. I am not in any form of contract with NPower.

In an attempt to get further clarity, I have bounced the ball back at Ofgem as I am still not convinced that, if PSEnergy Ltd was forced into insolvency by a creditor, Ofgem has the requisite legal powers to force NPower to take on PSEnergy’s debts. Indeed, NPower itself may be a major creditor. A simple solution to this would be for PS Energy Ltd to bring its contract wording in line with the other white label suppliers.

I am only pursuing this because of the large credit balances involved with this type of energy buying offer.