the snap general election thread

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

hallmark wrote: »

Hmm, how did the pollsters do when it came to calling the EU referendum result.....?

YouGov were one of the pollsters that called both this election and the referendum result to within the margin of error.

Rinoa wrote: »

The vast majority of voters don't understand the nuances of Brexit.

Wait a minute - your lot keep telling us voters understand perfectly well the nuances of Brexit and want an extreme Brexit as a result.

They voted [STRIKE]Labour[/STRIKE] Brexit because they were promised lots of free stuff.

Fixed that for you....

hallmark

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn wrote: »

I voted labour for the simple reason that I see suffering and misery on a daily basis, I work in child protection, my wife is a nurse, both areas are lacking the critical funding they deserve and I would happily pay more to support them. The only party offering this is labour. Our household income is just over £60k so we're not some lazy workshy scum like you're suggesting the majority of labour voters are. Time to grow up.

Posts like this genuinely suprise me. I would expect you to vote Tory for precisely the same reasons.

The Tories have to cut funding everywhere, including to the NHS & policing etc, because Labour run up a massive deficit. How do people fail to understand something so basic?

Here's an analogy: A girl goes out with a fec kless man for years & years, during which time he spends her money like water & leaves her in huge debt. They split up & she dates a new man who works out how much she can afford to spend in order to live within her means & pay off her debt, so that eventually she'll be able to achieve a better standard of living.

Your logic is to applaud the first guy & hate the second guy.

The choice is not "A labour Govt that spends money on public services versus a Tory Govt who doesn't".

The choice is "A Labour Govt that spends money we don't have on public services, eventually leading to a massive deficit which in turn necessitates far worse cuts to public spending than would ever have been necessary otherwise. Versus a Tory Govt that reduces spending to a manageable level & thus avoids the huge cuts that would otherwise be necessary eventually".

Next time you see suffering & misery, spend awhile reflecting on the fact that if Labour got in you'd see far more of it after they destroyed the economy (again).

hallmark

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

YouGov were one of the pollsters that called both this election and the referendum result to within the margin of error.

I see what you did there but what you mean is they got it wrong yeah......?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Nope. I mean they got it right.

hallmark

The Tory party has always had plenty of Europhiles, nothing new there.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CKhalvashi wrote: »

We are in a difficult era of politics, and I think that a centrist Brexit is more likely to send me back to the Conservatives (as I voted in 2015) than keep me with the party I voted for at this election. I think if they try anything but, many of the liberal Conservative voters are likely to desert them and that they may not get the traditional support from those going into retirement stretching a generation.

In short, if they pursue a hard Brexit model now, especially with the public opinion quoted above, this will be the final nail in the coffin when an election inevitably will need to be called again during the negotiations.

100% agreed.

And unsurprisingly even the Tory faithful over on ConservativeHome are figuring it out pretty quickly...

A few excerpts from the ConservativeHome comments section over the last few days....

I voted Brexit but I did not ask for the sheer folly of leaving the single market. The EU single market is the largest in the Western world, larger than America's even. It's madness to leave it.

she has to show humility and acceptance that the British people just told her to take a hike with her hard Brexit. .

The party lost moderate remain Tory voters

May ignored the "Remain" vote which was in the majority in London and many Southern Seats. By insisting on a hard Brexit she turned enough of them against the Conservatives to let Labour make some spectacular gains

Where did it go wrong? - Pushing for a hard Brexit and ignoring the 48%

Soft Brexit remaining in the Single Market is probably the only chance of some sort of stable politics at this point. Labour can live with it, the young can live with it, remainers can live with it and it still delivers the referendum result.

The Tories have correctly paid the price for putting party before country in the referendum and then the pursuit of a hard Brexit offering nothing to the 48% of the country who voted to remain.

Liberal (small 'c') conservatives in the South have deserted the party in droves because we will not vote for UKIP lite. 10,5% swing to Labour and 2.4% swing to Lib Dems even in super-solid blue Wokingham.

It seems the Tories are finally realising what went wrong for them...

And that there has been a seismic shift in British politics.

A hard Brexit is now completely off the table - May simply doesn't have the votes to get it through - and the majority of the country has no desire for it either.

hallmark

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Nope. I mean they got it right.

Really?

A subsequent eve of voting poll showed too close to call (51-49 Remain) and, unfortunately, our final on-the-day recontact study moved an additional percentage point in the wrong direction to 48/52 in favour of Remain.

They got it wrong on the eve of voting & wrong on the day. By my reckoning that means they got it, um, wrong.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/online-polls-were-right/

CKhalvashi

hallmark wrote: »

Posts like this genuinely suprise me. I would expect you to vote Tory for precisely the same reasons.

The Tories have to cut funding everywhere, including to the NHS & policing etc, because Labour run up a massive deficit. How do people fail to understand something so basic?

Here's an analogy: A girl goes out with a fec kless man for years & years, during which time he spends her money like water & leaves her in huge debt. They split up & she dates a new man who works out how much she can afford to spend in order to live within her means & pay off her debt, so that eventually she'll be able to achieve a better standard of living.

Your logic is to applaud the first guy & hate the second guy.

The choice is not "A labour Govt that spends money on public services versus a Tory Govt who doesn't".

The choice is "A Labour Govt that spends money we don't have on public services, eventually leading to a massive deficit which in turn necessitates far worse cuts to public spending than would ever have been necessary otherwise. Versus a Tory Govt that reduces spending to a manageable level & thus avoids the huge cuts that would otherwise be necessary eventually".

Next time you see suffering & misery, spend awhile reflecting on the fact that if Labour got in you'd see far more of it after they destroyed the economy (again).

So, you're now turning this into a class war because you're rich and others aren't?

Your logic is to tell someone to vote for a situation where their jobs will be privatised and probably made redundant because it suits your agenda?

You also support a minority government being propped up by a group with proven terror links after hounding the leader of the opposition over alleged terror links?

I'm not a Labour voter, but may vote Lab in the election later this year just to annoy you. :cool:

Also, how does your analogy work? How do you know one is a Tory and the other isn't? The answer is, as we've seen, you don't. I know many wealthy Labour voters and also some poor Tory voters, who seem to have a deluded impression that the party will take the most from them will somehow help them better their lives.

StevieJ

masterwilde wrote: »

https://www.change.org/p/winston-no-coalition-with-the-dup-may-out-postmanpratt1

worth signing in my opinion.

Not against the conservative ruling, but DUP, no thank you

I did hear someone say that Winston Churchill would be turning in his grave, rising from it, now that is pushing it :-)

Rinoa

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

It seems the Tories are finally realising what went wrong for them...

Well, when the election was announced they had a 22% lead and everybody knew precisely what their Brexit position was.

So clearly it must have been something else.