the snap general election thread

setmefree2

Yah_Boo_Sux wrote: »

Heh, and I'm thinking Mishal Husain as chair is doing better than some others I've seen recently too.

I'll give the BBC that - she did. And the questions were good too.

setmefree2

Conrad wrote: »

The audience bias was a hideous spectacle. Lucas on mentioning Trident got rapturous applause and whoops. I can think of dozens more examples.

Since only 20% of the population support scrapping trident only 20% of the audience should have be clapping - as I said disgusting.

Ask your self why?

"They" are trying to stop Brexit.

"They" want JC to win - they think he'll do a soft Brexit.

Fella

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Indeed, and Corbyn played the strategy perfectly.
You have to question why TM did not consider this strategy and countered accordingly.
Not a good sign that she can adopt a good strategy in the upcoming Brexit negotiations.
I can only assume she thought she would do more damage to her and the Conservative by appearing than not appearing.

I think I've already partly answered that: by the time Corbyn flip-flopped & said he would appear she was in a corner. All we're hearing today is about her not appearing, but if she had then all we'd have been hearing about is how she U-Turns on everything.

Add to that she's simply not very good at debating on her feet. She's been flattered in PMQs by the fact that Corbyn is even worse.

Personally I don't think it has much bearing on the Brexit negotiations which will be based on business, not on trying to win elections. May would at least deliver Brexit, something that Labour either wouldn't do at all or wouldn't do in a way that satisfied anybody who voted to leave. That's the point the Tories need to keep hammering home from now.

CKhalvashi

alewin wrote: »

Can you please explain what you mean by that because she was never due to appear on the show since it was announced weeks ago. Corbyn was not going to appear either until he changed his mind on the day.

Are you trying to mislead people or is it you who is being mislead?

Yes, more than happy to explain.

May has presented her CV to the nation (in terms of a manifesto), but is so far the only leader not to turn up at any interview she's been offered, instead sending Amber Rudd in her place.

My issue with that is she refuses to debate with leaders of 6 other political parties in the UK (likely because she knows it will show how weak she is), but wants us to trust her with 27 other EU leaders at the same time.

I'm trying to mislead noone, just trying to point out the reason she wasn't there.

People learn from their mistakes, while smart people learn from other peoples mistakes. She seems to have forgotten what happened to David Cameron last year and definitely hasn't learned anything from it.

wotsthat

Fella wrote: »

Have to laugh at the hypocrisy of the Labour supporters slagging May for not turning up after Corbyn himself didn't turn up at the first debate.

May refused to appear because the general perception is the current PM / current favourite has little to gain by debating with the outsiders.

Corbyn in turn refused to debate with the others the first time for the identical reasons: as opposition leader / 2nd favourite he viewed it that he had little to gain by debating with the even bigger outsiders.

He fully intended to dodge this debate too & only changed his mind at the last minute because the trend in the polls suggested that might be the better strategy on the day. Especially so because at that stage it became a win/win for Labour; Either May refuses to appear & they slag her off for that, or she does appear & they slag her off for being the queen of the U-Turn.

So please don't bore us with all this crap about duty to appear in debates etc etc. May & Corbyn are playing the identical game, all of it is election strategy pure & simple, and nothing within a million miles of caring whether the public get to see them debate.

Completely agree. They're playing a game of strategy and lying about why they did, or didn't turn up.

Corbyn thought he'd be best served politically by turning up at the last minute. May thought she'd be best served politically by not appearing (for reasons I gave).

In this case Corbyn won the political points.

setmefree2

Moby wrote: »

YouGov poll out tonight, Tory lead now down to 3 points. Strange times.

Best case scenario - LP spend a few years spending money we don't have.

Worst case scenario - ?

Fella

gfplux wrote: »

I think that Corbyn took part as he has realised that if he can get in front of voters he can attempt to dispel the "myth" built around him by the media.

What exactly is the myth? Can you list some examples of things the media says about Corbyn that are not true?

Because everything I see written about him is not only not myth, it's all a matter of public record, and not disputed.

His voting record, including voting against virtually every piece of anti-terrorism legislation, his comments on Hamas & Hezbollah, his dealings with the IRA, all of these are matters of public record. Likewise his economics.

ukcarper

Fella wrote: »

I agree, the Tories have so run perhaps the worst campaign humanly possible. I'm not arguing that it was horrible tactics (or at least they allowed themselves to be totally outmanoeuvred to a point where any tactics would backfire). I'm arguing that Corbyn etc is full of sh*t pretending his appearance last night had anything to do with believing that the public were entitled to see the prospective PMs debate. If he believed that then he should have been at the first debate whether or not May was, and he should have always been intending to attend the second debate too, not make a snap decision to attend on the day because that's what his strategists told him to do.

(And likewise I was making the point that his supporters on here are equally full of it if they try to pretend this was anything other than strategizing).

I'm not a fan of Corbyn but he seems to be doing something right so much so we could now be faced with a hung parliament with the possibility that the SNP might share power.

setmefree2

ukcarper wrote: »

In 2015 just under 50% supported Torys and UKIP so more people support non right wing Parties. The audience was picked to give all parties representation and only two of the parties were right wing also it was picked so that 50% voted leave and 50% voted remain. I don't think the BBC would blatantly lie as to how it picked audience as it could easily be checked. There was a large vocal against trident but not anywhere near 50% of audience.

More like 100%

IveSeenTheLight

Fella wrote: »

I think I've already partly answered that: by the time Corbyn flip-flopped & said he would appear she was in a corner. All we're hearing today is about her not appearing, but if she had then all we'd have been hearing about is how she U-Turns on everything.

Add to that she's simply not very good at debating on her feet. She's been flattered in PMQs by the fact that Corbyn is even worse.

You say Corbyn flip-flopped, but it could be construed as great strategising to put May into the corner.
My point was why she did not see this coming.
I reitterate, I wonder if it is because she thinks she would do herself more harm by appearing.

I would agree, she certainly does not come across very well thinking on her feet.

Fella wrote: »

Personally I don't think it has much bearing on the Brexit negotiations which will be based on business, not on trying to win elections. May would at least deliver Brexit, something that Labour either wouldn't do at all or wouldn't do in a way that satisfied anybody who voted to leave. That's the point the Tories need to keep hammering home from now.

I wonder how you remain convinced that May can deliver Brexit when she is so poor thinking on her feet and would seem to back up on the pre-Brexit negotiation meetings / dinners.
They on reflection would also indicate that she did not do well in those discussions.