MID and Police

Joe_Horner

Tilt wrote: »

Basically the police must first exhaust all possible avenues to establish whether the driver is covered or not. That MAY include making enquiries into the validity of any documents produced at the roadside.

No, that's the approach the Greater Manchester Police took in Pryor v GMP.

The Court of Appeal decided they were wrong in taking that approach and that, if a certificate which (ultimately) turns out to be valid is shown - even in apparently suspicious / unusual circumstances - but they seize the vehicle anyway based on information gained from "further checks" then the seizure is unlawful even if those further checks gave them reasonable grounds to believe the certificate was invalid.

forgotmyname

I wonder if the OP is the guy from the police interceptor show.

Pulling cars over for spot checks and they notice a car doing a u-turn to avoid it. they give chase where the driver crashes. Driver screaming racial abuse and bein uncooperative. Then they play a clip where the same driver got stopped before and did exactly the same, screaming racial abuse.

Unlucky for him to get caught twice with a camera crew in tow, but i expect it was all a planned racist attack?

Nothing to do with them driving illegally?

Richard53

Aretnap wrote: »

Since 2010 electronic certificates have been acceptable as an alternative to printed certificates (link).

If you're old-fashioned and/or paranoid about such things it is still worth printing off a copy to keep in the car in the event that your phone is out of battery/not working/has no signal.

I started doing that last year (following advice from this forum) and I am glad I did. I picked up a new (used) car last year and passed a parked police car on the way home. He chased me and pulled me over, and told me that the car had not been insured for the last 8 weeks. I produced my print-off of the certificate (valid from that morning) and he questioned it. I explained it was sent to me as a PDF for printing at home. He acted as though he had never heard of that, but that may have been to make me explain myself, as I have had electronic certificates for years now, and I can't believe it was new to him.


So:
Insurance database is not updated immediately
APNR is instant and works
Police officers generally sensible
Carrying documents with you is a good idea
So is being polite and reasonable
No need for panic or conspiracy theories.

Tilt

Joe_Horner wrote: »

No, that's the approach the Greater Manchester Police took in Pryor v GMP.

The Court of Appeal decided they were wrong in taking that approach and that, if a certificate which (ultimately) turns out to be valid is shown - even in apparently suspicious / unusual circumstances - but they seize the vehicle anyway based on information gained from "further checks" then the seizure is unlawful even if those further checks gave them reasonable grounds to believe the certificate was invalid.

Hmm, can't help thinking "don't shoot the messenger".

I was simply pointing out that there are quite a few considerations that the police must make before seizure according to Sec 165(A) of the RTA. Not sure why you have posted this as it's basically saying the same thing?

interstellaflyer

One think that sticks out to me on these police shows is whenever they pull a car that has a black or Asian driver, the drivers generally fail the attitude test, mainly the Asian guys are often arrogant, rude, cocky and talk among themselves in Urdu or whatever and it's clear by their body language that they are saying disrespectful things and generally taking the p*** out of the officer, and in an episode of Police Interceptors the other day, they pulled a car at night with a rear light out, black guy driving immediately got on his high horse pulling the race card, the officers response was that it was dark, he couldn't possibly see who was driving and all he wanted to speek to the driver about was the faulty rear light, no big drama, the black guy in making a scene ended up getting his white mate nicked for possession of canabis.

Joe_Horner

Tilt wrote: »

Hmm, can't help thinking "don't shoot the messenger".

I was simply pointing out that there are quite a few considerations that the police must make before seizure according to Sec 165(A) of the RTA. Not sure why you have posted this as it's basically saying the same thing?

Sorry, it wasn't meant in that way at all.

The reason for posting was simply this:

The courts have ruled quite clearly that checks after a valid certificate has been produced (even to confirm its validity) aren't acceptable grounds to seize.

Many people (including the OP) seem to think that the police ignore that and certain popular TV shows give the (no doubt highly edited)
impression that they do.

Given the above, the more law abiding, properly insured, drivers who know that such actions are unlawful the better because the police are more likely to be challenged (possibly after the fact) when they do stretch the rules. Precedents are not much use if the authorities ignore them and the public don't know about them!

akkers

I just want to clear up one thing - I am not saying all police officers are like this. IMO most police officers are fair but a small minority go behind their remit and can be racist. And if you think 100% of police officers are fair to 100% of the public at 100% of time then you are living in cloud-cukoo land.

As for the poster who commented on Asian drivers having attitude problems (on tv cop shows). Lets get one thing right - these are tv shows and they only show what will pull in the viewers ie: exaggrerated and extereme cases. These are in most hardened and regular criminals. So the young asian drivers on those shows are not your regular asian people, contrary to what you think of them. And if you got stopped at every corner then you will also develop an attitude.

AndyMc.....

akkers wrote: »

I just want to clear up one thing - I am not saying all police officers are like this. IMO most police officers are fair but a small minority go behind their remit and can be racist. And if you think 100% of police officers are fair to 100% of the public at 100% of time then you are living in cloud-cukoo land.

As for the poster who commented on Asian drivers having attitude problems (on tv cop shows). Lets get one thing right - these are tv shows and they only show what will pull in the viewers ie: exaggrerated and extereme cases. These are in most hardened and regular criminals. So the young asian drivers on those shows are not your regular asian people, contrary to what you think of them. And if you got stopped at every corner then you will also develop an attitude.

If you're going to play the race card stick to facts rather than generalisation.

Not 100% of them with attitude is down to being stopped for no reason.

Car_54

AndyMc..... wrote: »

If you're going to play the race card stick to facts rather than generalisation.

Not 100% of them with attitude is down to being stopped for no reason.

Is that a fact, or a generalisation?

akkers

AndyMc..... wrote: »

If you're going to play the race card stick to facts rather than generalisation.

Not 100% of them with attitude is down to being stopped for no reason.

What, do you think this is some kind game? We play race cards? Of course in this fantasy world, there is abolutely no racism, never.