Dementia Home wanting to expand into semi detached neighbour

AdrianC

brindlebum wrote: »

I don't expect there to be two market values, but it's clearly not uncommon for developers to pay above market value for forcing people to sell their house.

"Forcing"? No, you'd be choosing to move.

I don't think that having dementia patients wandering around a garden is nimbyism when I have two young children.

For the umpteenth time, if the residents - not "patients" - are wandering, then CONTACT THE CQC AS A MATTER OF URGENCY.

Tigsteroonie

brindlebum wrote: »

The nursing home have decided they wish to expand. Their proposal to do this is to buy our adjoining neighbour’s house from them and build across the gap to make it part of their existing property.

We’ve spoken with our neighbours who said that they’re not hugely keen to sell

Sounds to me like the nursing home are making a huge assumption there!

brindlebum

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

That was very much one of my first thoughts - ie that you and the neighbour need to guard against them playing the two of you off against each other.

I guess the obvious possible "wedge" this business could drive between the two of you is one of you being prepared to sell to them at, say, 120% of normal market value, whilst the other one of you was going to hold out for 200% of market value.

I would say that care home probably does want both your properties - but is going to keep schtum about wanting yours unless/until they get their hands on your neighbours one. At that point - they would start being open about it (ie because they'd figure you'd have that additional pressure on you to do what they want from being a house there on your own and with any disturbance being literally next door).

Personally - I'd say you and neighbour both need to agree together that there are only two options and you will both take the same one:

That being that you both turn round to the care home and say together (a joint visit in person I would think?) that they either buy both houses or neither. If they choose to buy both houses - then the price is, say, 200% of market value. Certainly - at the least 150% of market value.

At that point the care home might well say "No chance - we'll stay the same size then" and refuse to pay such a premium. There is a good chance that is what they will do - and then leave both of you alone to continue as now.

On the other hand - if they are prepared to pay that premium you and neighbour have decided on jointly - then you both sell to them at that premium price.

After all - neither of you would be selling by your own free choice/both of you have spent time and money on your houses on the basis that you are staying there for a good while longer yet and would need to recoup that money that would be wasted if it was a "forced" sale. From the care home pov - your 2 houses are their obvious expansion point. Without your 2 houses - they probably cant expand - or they will be the ones having to move.

I've certainly always maintained there are 2 prices for my house (be it last one or current one). First price is the market value and that is the one I charge if I've decided freely of myself to move. Second price is a (MUCH higher) premium price that I would demand if forced to move when I hadnt decided to do so myself (to allow for all that disruption/waste of my time/waste of my money).

Thanks, I do rather suspect that may be their intention and they are trying to force us into accepting a low value for our house.

The joint approach is really great advice - I'll speak to our neighbour and hopefully they will go for it. Like I say, they're not massively keen to sell, but I get the feeling they want to resolve this one way or another quickly - they only moved in 4 months ago, they want to get married this year and they're halfway between deciding to do lots of renovation work on their house or to sell it to the nursing home.

moneyistooshorttomention

AdrianC wrote: »

There is option C... That the care home decide to relocate instead.

If that happens, then you are looking at a large commercial property near you with C2 use. This covers any care home, including children's homes. It would also cover C1 use - hotels, boarding houses. It wouldn't be hard to see a change to C2a - secure residential, including half-way houses etc. Or C3/4 - multi-residential, including HMOs and supported housing.

Or change to a class B use, offices, or class A, shop/restaurant.

That is a possibility obviously.

But don't forget - there is also the option that the care home might be converted into flats. Depending on what the area as a whole is like - it might be nice posh flats meant for people starting out on a career ladder.

The other possibility (the one I would think most likely) is that the care home would stay put exactly where it is and set up an outlying "branch office" type home somewhere else nearby. Other businesses have split in two (or more) and had another location/s elsewhere.

From the care home pov - the least hassle option for them by far is to buy both the houses involved and do a joint renovation job on them and not have any local opposition to what they want to do. Personally - I think that is what they want and are trying to get that by a bit of "brushing over the truth" and not admitting they want OP's home too. Hence I'd be in there visiting in person with my neighbour and telling them pretty clearly what I thought they wanted - and what they would have to pay to get it and then leave the ball in their court. They will certainly refuse initially and try and pretend they only want the neighbours house anyway - and then go off and start running through the figures to decide if they are prepared to pay the premium/can afford to pay the premium. It's a gamble - but, provided OP and neighbour stick together = they cant lose as either the problem goes away and the carehome gives up the whole idea of buying either house OR the carehome pays them both a premium.

brindlebum

AdrianC wrote: »

"Forcing"? No, you'd be choosing to move.



For the umpteenth time, if the residents - not "patients" - are wandering, then CONTACT THE CQC AS A MATTER OF URGENCY.

I'm clearly not choosing to move - it's not my wish to move anywhere. You're completely ignoring my point about the value depending on whether or not our objection would threaten their plans and just focusing on a single word.

As I've stated they aren't wandering round my garden. I've been really clear about that and why I mentioned it, I know it's not going to be valid for a planning objection, stop twisting it.

Thanks again for the earlier advice, but you seem to be just trying to engage me in pointless arguments here.

zebulon

sparky130a wrote: »

Whether they expand or not is pretty much irrelevant.

Please do expand and qualify.

brindlebum

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

That is a possibility obviously.

But don't forget - there is also the option that the care home might be converted into flats. Depending on what the area as a whole is like - it might be nice posh flats meant for people starting out on a career ladder.

The other possibility (the one I would think most likely) is that the care home would stay put exactly where it is and set up an outlying "branch office" type home somewhere else nearby. Other businesses have split in two (or more) and had another location/s elsewhere.

From the care home pov - the least hassle option for them by far is to buy both the houses involved and do a joint renovation job on them and not have any local opposition to what they want to do. Personally - I think that is what they want and are trying to get that by a bit of "brushing over the truth" and not admitting they want OP's home too. Hence I'd be in there visiting in person with my neighbour and telling them pretty clearly what I thought they wanted - and what they would have to pay to get it and then leave the ball in their court. They will certainly refuse initially and try and pretend they only want the neighbours house anyway - and then go off and start running through the figures to decide if they are prepared to pay the premium/can afford to pay the premium. It's a gamble - but, provided OP and neighbour stick together = they cant lose as either the problem goes away and the carehome gives up the whole idea of buying either house OR the carehome pays them both a premium.

thanks enormously - that's by far the best advice I've received.

moneyistooshorttomention

Next door neighbour only moved in 4 months ago - young(?) couple about to start on renovation (or not as the case may be).

Now that is what I call timing on behalf of the carehome. They've been watching and monitoring for a while probably then and are, quite likely, now thinking:

"Neighbours have been there less than 6 months (ie well-known difficulties in selling a house on within 6 months to anyone needing a mortgage). Get in there quick after that house - now that they've had the chance to work out likely cost/hassle of the renovation of that house and might be wondering whether they really wish to go through that. Offer them a bit of a premium and then start playing silly b&ggers about the price to actually pay - once they've swallowed the hook and are well on the way to selling to us.

Stage 2 - end neighbour (ie OP) is now sitting duck for getting theirs too".

sparky130a

brindlebum wrote: »

I'm clearly not choosing to move - it's not my wish to move anywhere. You're completely ignoring my point about the value depending on whether or not our objection would threaten their plans and just focusing on a single word.

If you're not planning to move the value is irrelevant surely...

zebulon wrote: »

Please do expand and qualify.

My comment was self explanatory.

Person_one

sparky130a wrote: »

No you haven't, you bought in the full knowledge that this establishment existed. Whether they expand or not is pretty much irrelevant.

I can't quite believe what I'm reading on this thread!

You surely don't genuinely believe that there is absolutely no difference between a semi with a care home next door but one, and a very large care home with one private residence attached at one end of it?

OP, I don't think you're being a nimby at all, you've clearly been living perfectly happily with the care home very close for all this time, you just don't want to find yourself living in what would basically be your own private wing of the care home. That's completely understandable!