📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Electric cars

Options
1457910439

Comments

  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,729 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Debt-free and Proud!
    edited 27 January 2017 at 10:40AM
    Car_54 wrote: »
    When do you imagine that will happen, and how will it be achieved?
    Onshore wind is already cheaper and the way offshore wind, and, solar are progressing it will not be many years. Currently there is one solar site (in a desert) that is producing electricity at under US$24 per Megawatt. Soon to come is a new type of solar PV that is some 43% efficient compared to about 13% now.

    As more advances are made in the science and wind turbines & solar panels are produced in greater numbers the costs will come down further. In part of southern Italy solar produced electricity is provided free when conditions are favourable because their distribution system can't export it fast enough.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,729 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Debt-free and Proud!
    facade wrote: »
    Watched that series about generating electricity at a profit last year. I hadn't realised that it costs millions of pounds a year to keep a wind farm operational, an offshore one costs squillions, as they have to go there by helicopter, and they cost thousands an hour to run, even when they don't crash.
    How much does it cost he taxpayer to look after radioactive waste from old nuclear facilities? How much is the government subsidising Hinckley Point C and what have they guaranteed to pay for the electricity produced? Oh yes, twice what the present highest rate is. Fossil forms of generation also get subsidies.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    NigeWick wrote: »
    That said, Paris just banned some vehicles this week due to pollution.
    The ban came in at the start of June 2015. The only thing that's just changed is that they've started to impose fines. Basically, it's Euro2 (1997) or more recent emissions. From April this year, foreign-registered vehicles will also be affected. From June this year, Euro3 (2000) minimum.
  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,729 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Debt-free and Proud!
    iolanthe07 wrote: »
    Isn't it the Chevvy Volt?
    Nope. The Volt is a hybrid and the Bolt is just battery. I think the Bolt will be the Opel Ampera sur le continent.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,729 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Debt-free and Proud!
    Eletric cars a fundamental flaw is the batteries when they go, it will cost at least 10k to repalce.
    Battery costs are coming down all the time and are likely to hit $100 per kWh perhaps next year. Once they are that level electric vehicles should be cheaper to buy than fossil burning ones without subsidies.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
  • Strider590
    Strider590 Posts: 11,874 Forumite
    NigeWick wrote: »
    How much does it cost he taxpayer to look after radioactive waste from old nuclear facilities? How much is the government subsidising Hinckley Point C and what have they guaranteed to pay for the electricity produced? Oh yes, twice what the present highest rate is. Fossil forms of generation also get subsidies.

    It's all just politics...... People pull out statistics from manipulated data sources and present them as fact to support their side of the argument.

    When it comes to nuclear power, they always resort to banging on about Chernobyl, but they neglect to mention that the plant remained working and the remaining 3 reactors cores went on producing electricity for decades after the accident, they also neglect to mention that Pripyat (the abandoned town next to it) is now a tourist attraction.

    The truth is there a lot corporate interests putting false information out there, scaring the public to protect their own profits.
    “I may not agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to make an a** of yourself.”

    <><><><><><><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Don't forget to like and subscribe \/ \/ \/
  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,729 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Debt-free and Proud!
    Strider590 wrote: »
    The truth is there a lot corporate interests putting false information out there, scaring the public to protect their own profits.
    Absolutely.

    One of the problems I have with fossil, and especially nuclear generation is the possibility of disaster. Either in the form of a failure of the generator or some form of terrorist action/cyber mischief. One would not get that with solar and batteries in every home/shop/factory/workplace backed up by wind & solar with larger battery backup. By having localised generation and storage it would negate a lot of problems. With solar roof tiles/slates coming on the market along with cheaper batteries this sort of system makes sense to me.

    As I get older, the "greener" I get, especially with regards to energy generation and agriculture as I want a better world to live on for my grandchildren.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 15,402 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Strider590 wrote: »
    It's all just politics...... People pull out statistics from manipulated data sources and present them as fact to support their side of the argument.

    That's not really true. The cost of decommissioning in the UK can be seen by looking at the NDA's budget which is several £bn pa for the next century.

    Or you could look to the CfD contract for Hinkley Point C (HPC) which is £102/MWh (in 2016 monies), so will be £32/MWh higher than the predicted wholesale price of leccy in 2027 (when it might start producing), and £42/MWh higher than the 2035 predicted price. See page 40 of the NAO document.

    It's important to remember that this new nuclear subsidy for 35yrs comes after 60yrs of subsidy support for the industry.

    For comparison, the CfD contracts issued in 2015 for PV and onshore wind were £80/MWh (£83 in 2016 monies). More recent auctions in Europe were £60/MWh as the costs have continued to fall. Contracts at those prices would actually be below the 2027 predicted wholesale price.

    These 15yr subsidies for wind and PV are after only 5-10yrs of subsidy support.

    So whilst there are 'small p' politics involved in all discussions, that is no excuse to ignore the facts, and price/cost trends.

    Also the domestic PV subsidies paid to households for installs today are £66/MWh, with those monies returned into the UK economy, whereas the £102/MWh HPC monies will be paid to France and China adding to our balance of payments problems.

    BTW, whilst some tourism is taking place in Chernobyl, it is still highly radioactive and not suitable for permanent habitation. There are currently proposals to build an enormous solar farm there, similar to the ones set up in Fukushima.
    Mart. Cardiff. 8.72 kWp PV systems (2.12 SSW 4.6 ESE & 2.0 WNW). 20kWh battery storage. Two A2A units for cleaner heating. Two BEV's for cleaner driving.

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • JP08
    JP08 Posts: 851 Forumite
    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    That's not really true. The cost of decommissioning in the UK can be seen by looking at the NDA's budget which is several £bn pa for the next century.

    The only problem is producing a meaningful similar cost for ground / sea contamination and cleanup costs for the oil / coal / gas power generation industries. Complicated by the fact that the nuclear industry is about the only one that specifically cleans up after itself. The rest just leave the heavy metal contaminated waste in big heaps, albeit sometimes landscaped.

    Only then can a sensible comparison be drawn.

    One bonus of nuclear is that the physical size of the waste product is relatively small - compared to, say, Barlow Mound (the waste heap from Drax) http://www.drax.com/sustainability/vikings-war-and-waste-the-history-of-barlow-mound/ - all looks very nice and environmentally friendly ... pity they had to polymer seal the whole heap before putting the soil back ...
  • iolanthe07
    iolanthe07 Posts: 5,493 Forumite
    My Leaf gets a solid 130 even in the winter rain.

    That is excellent. Do you have to drive like a vicar on valium to attain this, and does it include having the heating on?
    I used to think that good grammar is important, but now I know that good wine is importanter.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 351.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.2K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 244.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 599.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177K Life & Family
  • 257.6K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.