Electric cars

zeupater

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Modern EV's do not use milk float technology. If they did, they wouldn't be "outperforming 99% of ICE cars on the road". Not that many do. Those that can, match or exceed any high performance IC engined car in complexity.

For example (excluding the two separate cooling circuits that manage the temperature of the battery packs and related power electronics by either heating or cooling the units as required)

Hi

So it's not a 'milk float' because it's got a battery thermal management system ?? ... well, modern 'milk float' battery packs will have thermal management too, same for any equipment which has a high demand fast charge/discharge requirement ....

All that's really different to a milk float in that diagram is the shape of the body-shell and reference to a lightweight monocoque chassis designed to house the battery packs and evenly distribute their weight to improve handling, similar to a lightweight mid-engined car .... four motors (one per wheel) aren't necessarily the way to go either, logically a 2WD configuration would have one motor and 4WD two, this in order to reduce design & engineering complexity, weight and mechanical reliance on the drive train ...

If it's considered 'wise' to 'advise', then if it looks, swims & quacks like a duck, don't immediately assume that it's not what it is, after-all, there are plenty of breeds of duck and they don't all look or perform the same ...

HTH
Z

Gloomendoom

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

So it's not a 'milk float' because it's got a battery thermal management system ?? ... well, modern 'milk float' battery packs will have thermal management too, same for any equipment which has a high demand fast charge/discharge requirement ....

All that's really different to a milk float in that diagram is the shape of the body-shell and reference to a lightweight monocoque chassis designed to house the battery packs and evenly distribute their weight to improve handling, similar to a lightweight mid-engined car .... four motors (one per wheel) aren't necessarily the way to go either, logically a 2WD configuration would have one motor and 4WD two, this in order to reduce design & engineering complexity, weight and mechanical reliance on the drive train ...

If it's considered 'wise' to 'advise', then if it looks, swims & quacks like a duck, don't immediately assume that it's not what it is, after-all, there are plenty of breeds of duck and they don't all look or perform the same ...

HTH
Z

I suppose if you strip everything back to basics, you are correct. Electric vehicle powertrains essentially consist of a battery and a motor with some kind of speed controller between the two. However, to suggest that a modern EV powertrain is no more complex than that of a traditional milk float is pushing the boundaries somewhat.

But then, I suspect that you already know that.

vman

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Those that can, match or exceed any high performance IC engined car in complexity.

For example (excluding the two separate cooling circuits that manage the temperature of the battery packs and related power electronics by either heating or cooling the units as required)

Oh come on! thats just not true, its significantly simpler than its ICE equivalent

vman

zeupater wrote: »

Hi
All that's really different to a milk float in that diagram is the shape of the body-shell and reference to a lightweight monocoque chassis...

...and there is not much space in the boot to put milk.

zeupater

Gloomendoom wrote: »

I suppose if you strip everything back to basics, you are correct. Electric vehicle powertrains essentially consist of a battery and a motor with some kind of speed controller between the two. However, to suggest that a modern EV powertrain is no more complex than that of a traditional milk float is pushing the boundaries somewhat.

But then, I suspect that you already know that.

Hi

The issue at hand is that whatever the EV powertrain, the engineering complexity and therefore high maintenance requirements can be designed out of the solution ... after-all, mechanical-wear in high value & complex items such as found in the ICE powertrain and drivetrain are a major element in vehicle running costs & lifespan ....

Anyway, if we're really comparing 'apples' with 'apples' they should both be 'modern apples' ... there's no reason to say that a 'modern' electric 'milk-float', or any other 'modern' electric commercial vehicle, doesn't or couldn't employ technology which is substantially different from a 'modern' passenger vehicle .... after-all, isn't there a strong possibility that there'll be a commercial vehicle announcement from the Tesla stable in the near future? ... maybe some of them will even be used to deliver milk! ...

HTH
Z

Gloomendoom

vman wrote: »

Oh come on! thats just not true, its significantly simpler than its ICE equivalent

Post that picture again... only next time strip out everything but the essential powertrain and chassis components.

I'm currently involved in building an high voltage electric racing car. It's to essentially the same formula as IC engined cars we have built in the past. Believe me, although the principle is simple, considered as whole, it is just as complex.

zeupater

Gloomendoom wrote: »

... only next time strip out everything but the essential powertrain and chassis components ....

Hi

... and don't forget the drivetrain, fluid systems (storage & delivery), braking technology, control systems (manual, semi-automated & electronic) ... effectively you'd need to include anything which physically makes the vehicle go or stop, as well as energy storage solutions in order to appreciate the difference in complexity ...

In relative terms, we're currently at the stage before standardisation of wall sockets where every local electricity-board in the UK had it's own solution ... at some time in the future you'll likely be able to walk into ha1fords or log into Amaz0n, buy a new 'standard' motor and connect it to your broken car or 'milk-float' at home as you would a battery today ...

The motor industry has been really shaken-up by likes of MrMusk and are currently quaking in their boots at the thought of the rate of change being driven & controlled by outsiders ... to date complexity, investment and non-standardisation has been a tool of revenue-stream protectionism for the industry to milk, however, the things that the new generation of interested parties are familiar with depend largely on industry-standards and standardised components.

Whether your computer is made by Ford, Toyota or VW there's little chance that they make the engines or much else really as much of the 'value' is contained in off the shelf components, it's just the added value of selection, design and assembly which differentiates ... 30 years ago the major players in the PC market really didn't understand the concept, they do now ... today the automotive players are just about starting to play catch-up ....

HTH
Z

gzoom

zeupater wrote: »

So it's not a 'milk float' because it's got a battery thermal management system ?? ... well, modern 'milk float' battery packs will have thermal management too

I love my EV, and occasionally I also carry milk in it sometimes, thinking about it with the rear doors open it'll be a much better milk float than a 600BHP Lambo, probably get the job done quicker .


https://youtu.be/sw739IwT_nw

NigeWick

Gloomendoom wrote: »

I'm currently involved in building an high voltage electric racing car. It's to essentially the same formula as IC engined cars we have built in the past. Believe me, although the principle is simple, considered as whole, it is just as complex.

You're saying that your electric racing car has as many breakable moving parts (cam shafts, pistons, piston rings, Connecting rods, crank shafts, gear boxes, exhaust systems for instance) as an ICE racing car?

Betty_Kenny

Just out of interest what typical journeys did you manage in the 24kwh we are looking at whether we would need the 30kwh - or any other factors you've found in the upgrade? Its quite hard to get definite info about range as it is so variable as I understand with weather/driving styles etc.
thanks