Electric cars

Car_54

gzoom wrote: »

Apparently the real pre-order list now over 500K+!!!

Tesla's investors have poured squillions of dollars into the company in the expectation (hope?) of vast future profits. So far, they have made not a cent.

It's not entirely unknown in these situations for the company's promoters to exaggerate (or indeed fabricate) the "pre-order" list to keep the investors on side for a bit longer.

NigeWick

gzoom wrote: »

RHD delivers would be till late 2019 - possibly even 2020 if North American/European demand keeps on climbing, who what the import duty/currency exchange rate will be like than.

I've got a two year lease on a 30kWh Leaf that runs out June 2019. I'll see what's available then. As you say, the Leaf replacement is out later this year and it is almost possible the VW offering may be available then too. Then of course if I win the lottery, Jaguar's Ipace may be on the market some time next year.

NigeWick

Stageshoot wrote: »

The R90 and Q90 Renault Zoes with 41kw Batteries are 200+ Mile EVs

It's a personal thing but I just don't trust their build quality and I don't think they are 200+ miles range. Yes, quite a bit more than the Leaf but not what Renault quote.

NigeWick

Car_54 wrote: »

Tesla's investors have poured squillions of dollars into the company in the expectation (hope?) of vast future profits. So far, they have made not a cent.

It's not entirely unknown in these situations for the company's promoters to exaggerate (or indeed fabricate) the "pre-order" list to keep the investors on side for a bit longer.

Life is a gamble but Tesla has almost kept to the master plan so far with production of the sports car, Model S and Model X.

I don't think they'd exaggerate numbers as it's just not worth it. The proof of the pudding will be if the Model 3 is what the buyers believe it will be, and, Tesla can ramp up production to cope with demand.

I honestly hope they do make it as it will show up other vehicle manufacturers who have fallen behind already and give them the shove they need to get competitive in the EV market.

almillar

The R90 and Q90 Renault Zoes with 41kw Batteries are 200+ Mile EVs

Even the salesmen aren't irresponsible enough to actually try to sell them as such. 180 in summer is a more realistic expectation.

It's easily the best value (£/range) car right now though, and yes, it's great. I've done 100 miles in an R240 (22kWh battery) but I don't tell people it's a 100 mile car, because they'll just end up disappointed.

Stageshoot

NigeWick wrote: »

It's a personal thing but I just don't trust their build quality and I don't think they are 200+ miles range. Yes, quite a bit more than the Leaf but not what Renault quote.

They have a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty and my plan is to keep 3 years and get rid so new owner will still have warranty, so not worried about any quality issues they will be covered.

My NEW i3 needed a complete new drive motor at 300 miles as it blew due to a manufacturing defect. Issues dont just affect the cheaper brands.

As for range 250Miles is the NEDC Test in the summer at 65mph 200 miles is very doable on Motorway & A Roads, (Have done it myself in the loan Zoe Multiple times) Although Renault say 186 in summer and 140 in winter (These are conservative and easily beaten with careful driving)

vman

Martyn1981 wrote: »

BNEF's projections are for batts to fall from around $250/kWh today to $73/kWh in 2030.


Do you have a link to that, as it sounds rather excessive. I know that a study of Tesla's found that on average they still had 94% capacity after 700 full cycles (around 150,000+ miles).

Sorry, I was pretty unclear there, when I say "sold new with a range of 100 miles" I referring to the leaf 2013 models sold with a theoretical range of about 100 miles but actually achieving about 70-ish, then degrading to 60-ish after a few years. Those figures are just anecdotal number I recall (probably incorrectly) from forums (probably exaggerated). The point I was trying to make is resale values of recent EV models is pretty poor, predominantly due to the range offered by the 2013-era batteries and worries about deterioration (the battery being the single most expensive component). Those worries alleviate a little if the market is met with relatively cheap, range extending aftermarket batteries. You can pick up a 2013 tekna leaf without battery for about 5K, if somebody develops an aftermarket 30KW battery for 2 or 3K giving a real range of 120-130 miles, I'd suggest that’s good value.

Staying on the deterioration angle, I was reading the other day that regen braking on EV's result in friction brake pads lasting 10 times longer. EVs can expect the original brake pads to last anything up to 500K. Here's one article:

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2016/03/are-friction-brakes-redundant-on.html

Again, on maintenance, here's a few links stating the most frequently changed parts on cars, it's an interesting read when you consider how few parts are actually relevant to EVs (or like brake pads, barely relevant):

https://www.yahoo.com/news/10-most-common-car-repairs.html

http://www.aa1car.com/library/car_parts_replaced.htm

https://www.autoguru.com.au/car-advice/mechanical-tips/your-car-service-what-parts-are-replaced-and-why

vman

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Once you move away from basic low voltage DC milk-float technology, electric vehicles get very complex and actually have quite a bit in them.

1. For example what?
2. "milk float tech" is outperforming 99% of ICE cars on the road (lawn mower tech), so why would you replace it?

Gloomendoom

vman wrote: »

1. For example what?
2. "milk float tech" is outperforming 99% of ICE cars on the road (lawn mower tech), so why would you replace it?

Modern EV's do not use milk float technology. If they did, they wouldn't be "outperforming 99% of ICE cars on the road". Not that many do. Those that can, match or exceed any high performance IC engined car in complexity.

For example (excluding the two separate cooling circuits that manage the temperature of the battery packs and related power electronics by either heating or cooling the units as required)

NigeWick

Stageshoot wrote: »

My NEW i3 needed a complete new drive motor at 300 miles as it blew due to a manufacturing defect. Issues dont just affect the cheaper brands.

Agreed. All you have to do is look at the results of surveys and WHICH? reports.

Still don't like the Zoe though.