Electric cars

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Do you have a link to that, as it sounds rather excessive. I know that a study of Tesla's found that on average they still had 94% capacity after 700 full cycles (around 150,000+ miles).

Just an update as a new episode of 'Teslanomics' was published yesterday on Youtube, with updates on the findings.

There's been some more analysis as the drop off rate is so low. They are now estimating that 80% capacity won't be reached till around 500,000km have been traveled.

It also pointed out that the longer life expectancy of vehicular batts (v's phones, laptops etc) is down to the fact that they aren't fully discharged, which negatively impacts life expectancy, and also because they are only charged to 80%, as 100% charge also has a small negative impact. They then went on to mention Tesla's having a 'trip charge' which is 100% when you want to go on a long 'trip'.

So the longer than expected life of EV batts is down to the way they are managed (on your behalf).

NigeWick

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Pretty much the reverse of what happened a 100 years ago resulting in electric cars becoming virtually extinct by 1920.

And horses on most city streets between 1900 and 1913.

almillar

It's not uncommon for a leaf sold new with a range of 100 miles (acceptable to many drivers) to have something approaching a near useless range 60 miles after 3 years due to battery deterioration

This is news to me - do you have any links, or where did you hear this? What mileage is on these batteries? Was this on early cars or recent?

I think the concerns with batteries are legitimate though. Some rather rare and precious metals go into them

See people say this about electric cars, but they're quite happy to keep buying laptops, tablets, phones, vacuums, power tools, which all use the same metals.

What's more, once those batteries have deteriorated beyond a certain point, you're left with a very very expensive paperweight (unless you're willing to spend about 5 grand currently), and a very expensive useless battery that needs disposing off.

And of course, this is completely untrue. There's plenty of demand for old batteries that have degraded a bit, for home electric storage. And after that, the vast majority of the battery can be re-used.

zeupater

Stoke wrote: »

... Seems some of those dirty diesels on the verge of being banned are the same dirty diesels that can run on veggie oil at very low emissions. Hmm.

Hi

Just a heads up on the above ...

Whether fuelled by diesel, biodiesel blend (say 5%-10%) or 100% biodiesel, various tests have been conducted which tend to show that the NOx emissions vary very little (approx ±3% of ppm from the mean) over the three..

Biodiesel tends to result in higher unburned hydrocarbon emissions per mile (approx 3x that of standard diesel), however the particles are also less visible (approx 1/3 opacity). In effect, although what you can see leaving the exhaust pipe looks the same, it's pumping out 3x more hydrocarbon pollution (although developing ICEs specifically tuned to biofuel and improved fuel refining may improve this considerably) .

The environmental benefit of biodiesel is purely the energy life-cycle timespan ... burning fossil diesel is reintroducing stores of CO2 scrubbed from the atmosphere millions of years ago to today's environment, whilst sustainable use of biodiesel has a full energy cycle which is logically measured as being between months & decades, depending on the bio-fuel source.

HTH
Z


ps .... Tried-out the Vauxhall Ampera (Volt) years ago ... nice, but too expensive and manufactured in quantities which were too low to not worry about ongoing support, spares component costs &, most importantly, manufacturer commitment to the technology at the time (which seems to have been justified).

Martyn1981

If anyone's interested the Tesla Model 3 prices have been announced, with the base 220 mile car at $35k and the long range 310 mile car at $44k.

Tesla Model 3 Will Come in Standard & Long Range 310 Mile Range Version, Full Specs Revealed

Warranty

Vehicle: 4 year, 50,000 mile limited warranty
Battery warranty: 8 year, 100,000 mile (120,000 mile with Long Range Battery)

NigeWick

Martyn1981 wrote: »

If anyone's interested the Tesla Model 3 prices have been announced, with the base 220 mile car at $35k and the long range 310 mile car at $44k.

And, you'll be able buy one after they've made the 350,000 already on order......

gzoom

NigeWick wrote: »

And, you'll be able buy one after they've made the 350,000 already on order......

Apparently the real pre-order list now over 500K+!!!

RHD delivers would be till late 2019 - possibly even 2020 if North American/European demand keeps on climbing, who what the import duty/currency exchange rate will be like than.

Cheapest way into a 200 miles range EV here in the UK looks like been a next gen Leaf due to be announced Sep this year on sale 2018. Used Model S prices are starting to fall, but your still looking at £45k+ for a 3 year old car with 50K on the clock.

Martyn1981

Royal Mail are having a play too

Royal Mail To Purchase 100 Peugeot Partner L2 Electric Delivery Vans

Stageshoot

gzoom wrote: »

Apparently the real pre-order list now over 500K+!!!

RHD delivers would be till late 2019 - possibly even 2020 if North American/European demand keeps on climbing, who what the import duty/currency exchange rate will be like than.

Cheapest way into a 200 miles range EV here in the UK looks like been a next gen Leaf due to be announced Sep this year on sale 2018. Used Model S prices are starting to fall, but your still looking at £45k+ for a 3 year old car with 50K on the clock.

The R90 and Q90 Renault Zoes with 41kw Batteries are 200+ Mile EVs and after Govt Discount and Dealer Incentives you can pick a top of the range one with an owned battery (none of this leased battery rubbish) for under £20k. It may not be a BMW i3 or a Tesla but it has all the standard EVs whipped on range by a long shot at the moment for Compac Car Money.

Stageshoot

Seen a few comments about battery life and degradation, well it seems from reports and real life experience this really is becoming a none issue,.

My BMW i3 Went into BMW for its service it has covered 30100 (Registered Jan 2016), has the small 60ah battery. The battery is detailed at 19.1Kw/h capacity when new.

My car has covered 30100 miles, rough 50/50 spilt of overnight home charging and rapid charging while out during day.

BMW Reported the car had taken in 6919Kw of energy (Average 4.3 miles per kwh used)

With the battery being 19.1kwh usable that equates to 362 full charge discharge cycles.

After 30100 miles and 18 months of use, the battery they said the battery is still 100% @ 19.1kwh capacity.

So seems it will be a few years more before I can justify swapping it for a larger unit and hang this one as on my house wall as a home storage battery, At this rate it will 20 years or more before its usable capacity is down to 15kw or so