Electric cars

buglawton

Interesting that Instavolt charge £0.35/kWh, 3 times the average UK domestic rate. Quite a mark up, eh? That'd make me reconsider the economics of EV but not in a good way.

Car_54

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

... except that the UK doesn't have a 'constitution' as such & that far from being a 'fundamental principle' it's a mere conceptual theory!

I agree that any successor government could attempt to repeal the Act, however, unless it's replaced by similar protective legislation, there's little chance that the attempt would go unchallenged within both Westminster houses & through the judicial process ... my guess is that too much water has already passed under the bridge to warrant any party making such a fundamental decision as to withdraw from long standing treaty obligations with all of the implications involved ... apart from that, the motor industry is global so the volume of water flowing under that bridge is far too great for the UK alone to hold back - no matter which leader believes that they're a reborn Canute, the outcome will be the same ...

If necessary, further discussion along these lines should/could be debated on other threads, alongside the detrimental climatic contribution of the construction industry ...

HTH
Z

I think the sovereignty of parliament is a bit more than a "mere conceptual theory". It has never seriously been challenged since it was established over 300 years ago.

Stageshoot

But they are supplying a service not just the electricity.

Need to recoup the £50k cost of the unit plus the £1000s they pay the sites a year to have them there

As EV mainly charge at home you have to see any public rapid charging as a premium service

AnotherJoe

buglawton wrote: »

Interesting that Instavolt charge £0.35/kWh, 3 times the average UK domestic rate. Quite a mark up, eh? That'd make me reconsider the economics of EV but not in a good way.

You could say the same about beer in a pub "how come its £4 at my pub when i can get it at the supermarket for 10% that",buying a mars bar at a service station instead of a pack of 4 at a supermarket, or buying a sandwich at the service station instead of taking your own packed lunch. etc etc etc.

The question to ask yourself is how often would you be charging at an Instavolt or similar? If its occasional then its no more expensive in reality than all the above because its an occasional purchase and no more relevant to the choice of getting an EV than deciding never to eat a mars bar at a service station "because they have too much of a mark up" despite the fact in actual money its costing you a fiver a year.

FWIW, since these chargers cost, i understand, at least £50k a time, unless they charge that sort of price, then the companies wont make a profit and they wont install them, so instead of a few times a year when away from home you pay £15 for a top up instead of £5, and the rest of the year save 80% on fuel as you'll be charging at home, you'll be spending £60+ every time you fill up with petrol on the grounds its "not as much of a mark up".

If you cant charge at home then the economics of EVs certainly alter and you either decide to have an EV just because they are better and more fun to drive, and as a side benefit dont poison the people they drive past, or carry on as before.

buglawton

Stageshoot wrote: »

But they are supplying a service not just the electricity.

Need to recoup the £50k cost of the unit plus the £1000s they pay the sites a year to have them there

As EV mainly charge at home you have to see any public rapid charging as a premium service

Exactly like petrol stations then, where margins are wafer thin despite serious capital investment that includes underground fuel storage.

Well, wafer thin except when located at monopoly motorway service stations when the markup can reach maybe 30%. But not 300%...

AnotherJoe

NigeWick wrote: »

I suspect government will just charge all vehicles for road mileage traveled using the camera systems to automatically take money from one's bank account.

MOT. Cheaper, easier, simpler, in operation elsewhere in the world already.
Though of course all those factors do mitigate against the government doing it that way.

buglawton

AnotherJoe wrote: »

...they are better and more fun to drive, and as a side benefit dont poison the people they drive past, or carry on as before.

The pollution is displaced from the roadside to the power station, until and if renewable power generation can keep up with the expanded real world demand of a shift to EVs. All that imported oil calorific value will need replacing with something else... It's a bit premature to imagine EVs are clean energy.

AnotherJoe

buglawton wrote: »

Exactly like petrol stations then, where margins are wafer thin despite serious capital investment that includes underground fuel storage.

Well, wafer thin except when located at monopoly motorway service stations when the markup can reach maybe 30%. But not 300%...

And this is why petrol stations are closing and existing ones are becoming more like mini-marts and coffee shops. 75% closed since 1970. And its going to continue especially in urban areas as the price of land rises then its more lucrative to put houses on it than sell petrol.

AnotherJoe

buglawton wrote: »

The pollution is displaced from the roadside to the power station, until and if renewable power generation can keep up with the expanded real world demand of a shift to EVs. All that imported oil calorific value will need replacing with something else... It's a bit premature to imagine EVs are clean energy.

I made no claim they were squeaky clean, i was careful in my words, "the people it drives past" but "don't let perfect be the enemy of good"
It's far easier to clean up the muck from one power station than hundreds of thousands of poorly maintained ICEs , especially if they been constructed by lying manufacturers.

Power stations generally also arent in the middle of towns belching NOx in your face or idling outside peoples drives and schools at pick up time either.
And every time you switch off a fossil fuel power station and replace it with something thats less polluting, that's a big win and better to do that one at a time than waiting until we can convert 100%* because, well, we'll all be dead by then.


* (is that your proposal or if it isnt, whats your point?)

buglawton

"It's a bit premature to imagine EVs are clean energy" wasn't anything personal, I say it to balance the impression that people contemplating an EV get, that EVs are 100% emission free. I think some EV manufacturers actually advertised that in their advert headlines (not sure if they've been picked up on it by the ASA though).

Interesting thoughts: Approx 25% of emissions in the UK are from energy generation, another 25% from vehicle tailpipes. Energy consumption is 29% generated, 24% on the road. If the UK were to go 100% EV in 2050 or whenever, that would mean moving all those vehicle emissions into power stations or renewables. The clean up costs moves from consumer to generator...

Funny how the government can state 'no new ICVs to be sold after 2040 etc" yet have zero policy about future generation and the emissions thereof.