Electric cars

Martyn1981

The 2019 Leaf will get more range and power, in fact the specs and price bring it into line with the Bolt and TM3 at the apparent (current) sweet spot of approx $35k. Not clear if it will have a TMS but shirley they wouldn't make that mistake again?

The more the merrier.

Confirmed: 2019 Nissan LEAF To Have More Range, More Power

buglawton

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The roll out of charging solutions is a hodgepodge, and the technology will become obsolete. Well I think both claims are a 'cheat', since the rollout of charging will of course appear a bit of a hodgepodge until such time as we know exactly what we want and how to do it. So hodgepodge is a bit naughty - perhaps a better term is learning on the job prior to a natural shift to the best outcome as and when it becomes obvious.

The second part is also a 'cheat' since all tech becomes obsolete over time, the rollout so far reflects ideas, assumptions and in many cases a dipping of the toe in the water.

I think you are looking for negatives as that's easier than looking for solutions.

I see the rollout of EV's and charging as a learning exercise currently, which will of course lead to many mistakes, but I don't see the need to judge yet as we don't really know what will (or should) evolve.

I think the topic is too serious to have the rollout bumble along as a 'learning on the job' event. So I'm trying to emphasise how important government leadership is, if we were to 100% switch to EV on new cars by 2040.

A lot of the pro EV posts here are by well heeled early adopters with good use-cases. I want to put the more realistic angle on it.

A lot of similarity with fibre-to-the-home. Were it done right it would have economically beneficial results right across the UK. Were it done right...

Conservative governments attitude to all infrastructure nowadays is how to privatise it (railways/housing) or to walk a political tightrope on it (NHS/higher education). And I don't have the slightest bit more confidence that Labour would do any better.
Doesn't bode well for EV - we may get there but only in 70 years time and the taxpayer will pay for a few fiascos and mega-bungles by then.

Herzlos

I don't think it'll take anything like that long, or be quite the mess you expect. Even if left entirely to private entities, things will merge and standardize over time, especially since many of the cars are produced in collaboration with other manufacturers.



I'm sure at some point the EU will insist on standards for car charging like they did with phones. That'll provide a huge incentive for manufacturers and energy suppliers to satisfy a standard.


And I'm not sure how much scope there is for divergence - you've got different pins and firmwares for the chargers, but the power coming to them is already going to be 2 or 3 phase of differing magnitudes.


I think the real issue will be the payment/registration systems for paid-for charging (pay as you go or subscription), because you'll need different accounts and potentially different tariffs. But realistically that's not vastly different to using Shell over BP stations for combustibles.

Car_54

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm sure at some point the EU will insist on standards for car charging like they did with phones.

1. EU? Can you see a possible flaw with that suggestion?


2. The standards for mobile phones were established by ETSI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) - nothing to do with the EU.

Martyn1981

buglawton wrote: »

I think the topic is too serious to have the rollout bumble along as a 'learning on the job' event. So I'm trying to emphasise how important government leadership is, if we were to 100% switch to EV on new cars by 2040.

A lot of the pro EV posts here are by well heeled early adopters with good use-cases. I want to put the more realistic angle on it.

A lot of similarity with fibre-to-the-home. Were it done right it would have economically beneficial results right across the UK. Were it done right...

Conservative governments attitude to all infrastructure nowadays is how to privatise it (railways/housing) or to walk a political tightrope on it (NHS/higher education). And I don't have the slightest bit more confidence that Labour would do any better.
Doesn't bode well for EV - we may get there but only in 70 years time and the taxpayer will pay for a few fiascos and mega-bungles by then.

Alternatively - it will continue to roll out nicely in line with demand and EV sales, whilst at the same time some highly creative and imaginative folk will 'suggest' a whole load of potential problems and negatives based on the assumption that nobody else has ever thought of (nor resolved) that. Those same folk will, of course, never offer solutions, just a never ending list of 'the end is nigh' proclamations.

Eventually the inevitable will happen, the only real question is how many years the 'creative' negativity will be sustained in direct denial to the reality being rolled out.

Regarding your learning on the job issue - if you know exactly what should and must be done today, to meet the EV needs of the future, then I'd politely suggest you let the powers that be, and the all of the car marque's know.

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Some EV news:

1. Tesla may be taking market share from 'ordinary' cars, not just the small luxury market. I'm only guessing, but the Model 3 could/might outsell all other cars from Aug 18 to July 19 in the US. Might even get close to the Ford F150 pick up. Quite an achievement.

It's still early days, but the TM3 is creeping up the charts, despite AC's 'outrage' at such a possibility.

Tesla will probably have to get production up to 7,000+ per week, to hit the top spot and that's before allowing for exports, but regardless, fingers crossed it'll happen.

If it does reach the number one spot then the rest of the US will have to (at the very least) take EV's seriously. A serious wake up kick in the pants for the old boys.

Tesla Model 3 Might = 5th Best Selling Car In USA In August

Herzlos

Car_54 wrote: »

1. EU? Can you see a possible flaw with that suggestion?

Whilst we may or may not be in the EU and may or may not follow EU directives, all of our car manufacturers sell to the EU and are unlikely to build separate charging systems for the UK vehicles unless that's the only one supported. If all of our cars support an EU standard for charging, that's what our infrastructure will adhere to.

2. The standards for mobile phones were established by ETSI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute) - nothing to do with the EU.

As I understand it, ETSI devised the standard, but and EU MoU was involved in getting agreement from manufacturers to follow said standards.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

It's still early days, but the TM3 is creeping up the charts, despite AC's 'outrage' at such a possibility.

If you bother to read what I actually wrote, I wasn't in the slightest outraged. It was always going to happen when production came up to the level that had long been promised - simply because the size of the backlog in orders meant that demand was always going to outstrip demand.


Let's see what happens when the backlog clears.

Tesla will probably have to get production up to 7,000+ per week, to hit the top spot and that's before allowing for exports, but regardless, fingers crossed it'll happen.

Oh, it'll happen when the production does get there, and that shouldn't be too much longer now. The cork seems to be well out now, with a month of consistent 5,000+ and a peak of just under 6,000. 70k+ now out there in total, nearly half of which have been this quarter's production.

We're finally up to the level forecast for the start of 2018, then the end of Q1, then the end of Q2. We're on track for the current estimate, sure, but since that was only made in July...



https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/


How long's the queue now?

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

If you bother to read what I actually wrote, I wasn't in the slightest outraged. It was always going to happen when production came up to the level that had long been promised - simply because the size of the backlog in orders meant that demand was always going to outstrip demand.


Let's see what happens when the backlog clears.



Oh, it'll happen when the production does get there, and that shouldn't be too much longer now. The cork seems to be well out now, with a month of consistent 5,000+ and a peak of just under 6,000. 70k+ now out there in total, nearly half of which have been this quarter's production.

We're finally up to the level forecast for the start of 2018, then the end of Q1, then the end of Q2. We're on track for the current estimate, sure, but since that was only made in July...



https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/


How long's the queue now?

Actually you listed a whole load of false figures, even suggesting Tesla needed to increase production 35 fold.

You also implied my fun suggestion that Tesla could hit the top car spot with the TM3 was not based on reality:

AdrianC wrote: »

Is there any reality which will impinge upon your rampant astroturfing for St Elon?

But as is always the case with your crazy and false claims, reality bites! Then you start to 'revise' (deny) what you said.

PS - Tesla may overtake BMW in US monthly sales soon ..... that gives you something new to deny with false claims ..... if you so wish.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Actually you listed a whole load of false figures, even suggesting Tesla needed to increase production 35 fold.

To rival the best-selling vehicle, the Ford F150 pickup, as you had suggested, at the then-current production rates.



https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5591486/electric-cars&page=97#1927


Yes, I included the entire F-series in that by mistake. Sorry, it should only have been around 22x. My bad.

PS - Tesla may overtake BMW in US monthly sales soon ..... that gives you something new to deny with false claims ..... if you so wish.

Little way to go, with BMW shifting 300k+ cars last year, plus another ~50k Minis.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0277617EN_US/bmw-group-u-s-reports-december-2017-and-year-end-sales