Electric cars

Martyn1981

Interesting price given the range, unless the batts aren't included.

Honda To Revive The Fit Electric With 186 Miles Of Range & Sub-$20,000 Price Tag

Stageshoot

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Interesting price given the range, unless the batts aren't included.

Honda To Revive The Fit Electric With 186 Miles Of Range & Sub-$20,000 Price Tag

Same Range as the Current Renualt Zoe ZE40
NEDC 250 Miles 186 Miles Real World

About the same price as well, £16k after discounts and grants for the midrange Dynamic version (Thats with an owned battery)

Will be good to see more cars in the sub £20k price bracket its a bit empty there at the moment.

NigeWick

zeupater wrote: »

That's a pretty scary bet to make, betting the environment on little more than hope and a gut feeling ...

Z,
manufacturers are looking to source their materials as cheaply as possible and the likes of DRC can supply a lot of what is required, if they can buy the mines from the current owners and run them without child labour etc.

As I said, we can agree to disagree on how we get to zero emissions. I think I've mentioned before that I am totally against fracking as well as fossil fuel & nuclear electricity generation. I honestly believe that when the next advance in better and cheaper battery technology proves viable, it will be taken up very quickly.

As this is an electric cars thread, I'll get back on topic. I have had an e-mail from Nissan asking what I think about my new 40kWh Leaf. I whinged about #rapidgate and the fact that I can't get anywhere near their claimed NEDC (235 miles) range where I could get with 5 miles with the 30kWh (155 miles) Leaf I had. The best I have managed is 193 which is 40 miles short.

silverwhistle

Stageshoot wrote: »

Will be good to see more cars in the sub £20k price bracket its a bit empty there at the moment.

Good point. Even fewer in my second hand price bracket!


How quickly battery production can be ramped-up is a difficult call, but one thing seems certain is that the manufacturers can be a lot more confident in their planning and investments as momentum builds. The recent doubling of an already large commitment by Volkswagen is one example. Hyundai have a couple of popular models and are nowhere near meeting the demand, and seem surprised by their popularity. Their planning must also change to take in the new dynamic.


I'm not au-fait with battery technology but I seem to recall seeing reference to other materials other than lithium, and we can't discount that in 5-8 years such a battery might be in production. I wouldn't put any bets either way at the moment.

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Here's a thought, how about H2 hybrids?

To be clear, I'm not a fan of H2 v's BEV's as I think a BEV is superior, but it just struck me that a plug in H2 car would solve both the problem of battery shortage during build out, and the removal of the ICE.

I suppose the downside is that we'd still have to roll out a H2 infrastructure, and large scale production of H2, but, it's a thought

Hi

Whatever the solution, there's no way that lithium based battery supply can be ramped up from such a low level to cope with 100% of automotive build in just a few years without serious impacts on the entire supply chain, especially so if much of the manufactured capacity is underutilised .... and that's if there's sufficient readily accessible material supply to be ramped up in the first place! ....

I read an article some time back that explained part of the issue in basic terms ... Take Peak Lithium Forecasts With a Pinch of Andean Salt - Bloomberg ... makes interesting reading and certainly places a number of assumptions into context ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

This is a great (and short) video on GM and the 'killing' off of the EV1.

I wonder if the Bolt is also expected to fail, and once again the demand for an EV has caused GM some confusion. Or they simply can't make a profit on an EV yet, given Tesla's huge advantage in selling cars at retail (not wholesale) prices.

GM Killed their BEST product EVER!!

AdrianC

You really do believe any conspiracy theory guff that happens to go in the direction of your preconceived conclusions, don't you?

GM only ever leased the EV1, never sold them - their cars to do with as they wished - and the crushing of "public prototypes" to avoid future spares obligations has happened various other times in the past - the ones I'm most familiar with are Citroen, with the M35 (a very similar small-scale "public prototype") and Birotor (which was an actual full showroom-and-pricelist production model, yet they bought back as many as possible and crushed them).

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

You really do believe any conspiracy theory guff that happens to go in the direction of your preconceived conclusions, don't you?

GM only ever leased the EV1, never sold them - their cars to do with as they wished - and the crushing of "public prototypes" to avoid future spares obligations has happened various other times in the past - the ones I'm most familiar with are Citroen, with the M35 (a very similar small-scale "public prototype") and Birotor (which was an actual full showroom-and-pricelist production model, yet they bought back as many as possible and crushed them).

You Ok hun?

AdrianC

I know, who needs facts and reality, eh?

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

I know, who needs facts and reality, eh?

You OK hun?