Electric cars

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Absolutely!

>150 miles in a day is not hard at all just pootling and playing, even before you consider taking it on a Euro tour, or to a Jag club meet the other side of the country, where you'll be parked in a field alongside several hundred other cars - or an order of magnitude more other classics.

Look at the classic parking at somewhere like Goodwood.

Just when I think your negative desperation has scraped the barrel's bottom!

My experience of running a classic and attending shows is that 150 miles of range is absolutely fine, especially if you are sticking to about 60mph to avoid 12mpg. Whilst an EV won't be impacted quite as bad, range will lessen if driven hard, but who drives a classic fast on motorways, you want to enjoy the cruise and the day out.

A stop for a recharge will most likely be spent chatting with interested passers by, or with others in your convoy if travelling as a group.

PS - Have you had a chance to find any links to support all your Tesla semi claims yet?

PPS - If the Jag conversion had been done by PAS, would it be the best EV ever!

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

... I don't think BEV's would be anywhere close to where they are today without the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, but in the long term, possibly medium term, I suspect PHEV's will fade (as will ICE) as BEV's get better and better.

Hi

That really falls in line with my expectations ... a phased approach offers the most likely chance of success in seriously reducing emissions within a tight timescale, but it's likely that ICE (whether petroleum based hydrocarbon or otherwise) hybrids will be around for much longer than many would hope/believe ...

As an aside, we had a Honda Insight for an extended test drive ... poor/uncomfortable access created by wide sills and many other 'features' that quickly resulted in exclusion from making the short-list ... moving from a decent 4x4 to one of these would have resulted in a compromise much greater than we were willing to make at the time ...

HTH
Z

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

... (Oh, and Zeu? Very wrong. Mine get used.)

Hi

Maybe, but there's a difference between (say) a 40(ish) year old Landrover & a 50(ish) year old E-Type ... there's plenty of old Landrovers around here that are still used as workhorses on a daily basis, some by the original owners but I really doubt that many get used for long distance personal transport let alone have owners clambering to spend multiple times the value of the vehicle converting to an EV whilst the idea of medium/high value classic sports cars having the option to be run on electrons with the ability to reverse to original condition if necessary/required would be attractive to quite a few ....

... next you'll be claiming that you shouldn't convert an E-Type to an EV because it'd affect it's ability to tow or something equally ridiculous ... however, as a concept for keeping classics on the road for years to come without the carbon police pulling them over and sending them to the crusher, the idea of a relatively simple conversion with a range between charging of around 170 miles is eminently attractive to many, let's just hope that Jaguar (or someone else) take it beyond the concept stage ....

HTH
Z

NigeWick

zeupater wrote: »

... what's better? ... all vehicles hybrid sooner, or all vehicles EV much later ... it's a simple storage supply & demand quandary that seems to be overlooked ... if 1 decent range pure EV consumes the resource of (say) 10 hybrids, but the majority of miles in EV mode in those hybrids is in EV mode, isn't the carbon emission balancing act firmly in favour of the hybrid -or- should we be purist & just wait longer for the same outcome?

Increase battery production to cope with all new vehicles being EVs plus more for battery storage. That said if all electrically driven vehicles have V2G capability then less need for storage batteries.

As an aside, I am hoping to get in on the V2G trial by Ovo later this year as I've got a 40kWh Nissan Leaf. Out of 1,100 miles driven only about 100 were powered by mains and another 250 from rapid chargers. The rest have come from our solar panels.

zeupater

NigeWick wrote: »

Increase battery production to cope with all new vehicles being EVs plus more for battery storage. That said if all electrically driven vehicles have V2G capability then less need for storage batteries.

As an aside, I am hoping to get in on the V2G trial by Ovo later this year as I've got a 40kWh Nissan Leaf. Out of 1,100 miles driven only about 100 were powered by mains and another 250 from rapid chargers. The rest have come from our solar panels.

Hi


Yes, that's the answer in Utopia, however, we live where we live & here it's unlikely that you'd be able to ramp up battery manufacturing capacity to cope with around 1.4million decent range European pure EV car sales/month anywhere near as quickly as you could with a mix of EVs and hybrids simply because of the relative storage capacity allocated to each vehicle ... this approach also addresses both the issue of initial high battery price on uptake momentum and the current ingrained range anxiety which many have ....


HTH
Z

redux

Herzlos wrote: »

Petrols a few minutes of standing holding it, for about £60.
I'm not sure how fast the electric one will charge, but it'll cost pennies (if it costs anything) and you don't need to stand waiting on it.

Taking 10-15 minutes extra every 2 hours shouldn't be a problem. Grab a coffee, enjoy life. No-one driving one of these things is going to be in a huge rush to get anywhere.

Not quite only pennies.

20 or 30 minutes rapid charge to add about 50 or 80 miles range, for some.

30 pence per kilowatt-hour at Ecotricity on many of the main roads, 10 to 15 p/kWh at others, some with monthly subscriptions to have those cheaper rates, some £6 flat fee per charge.

Best to treat this as only for standby, for a long trip, such as when originally buying the car from somewhere else in the country, though if that was 300 or 400 miles, I think I'd look at hiring a car trailer to fetch it.

NigeWick

zeupater wrote: »

it's unlikely that you'd be able to ramp up battery manufacturing capacity to cope with around 1.4million decent range European pure EV car sales/month anywhere near as quickly as you could with a mix of EVs and hybrids simply because of the relative storage capacity allocated to each vehicle ... this approach also addresses both the issue of initial high battery price on uptake momentum and the current ingrained range anxiety which many have ....

Z,
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe battery manufacturing capacity can be ramped up sufficiently even using current energy density. And, as we know, there is a lot of work being done on improving battery technology so that not only are they more energy dense but much cheaper too.

I think hybrids are just a method for motor manufacturers and oil companies to keep making larger profits from consumers.

NigeWick

redux wrote: »

Not quite only pennies.

True. We went 125 miles to York a couple of weeks back. Solar energy to get there. £3.75 for a Charge Your Car rapid charger for an hour whilst looking round a shopping outlet and having lunch. 125 miles home again and back to solar energy.

zeupater

NigeWick wrote: »

Z,
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe battery manufacturing capacity can be ramped up sufficiently even using current energy density. And, as we know, there is a lot of work being done on improving battery technology so that not only are they more energy dense but much cheaper too.

I think hybrids are just a method for motor manufacturers and oil companies to keep making larger profits from consumers.

Hi

That's a pretty scary bet to make, betting the environment on little more than hope and a gut feeling ...

If the plug-in hybrid option is taken and is successful then at a point in time when battery manufacturing capacity can cope somewhere around 90% of mileage would likely be electrified .... however, at the same point in time in the confined battery manufacturing capacity scenario then only 10% of mileage would be in EV mode if we go down the pure EV route (ie ban hybrid sales) ...

Now, the environmental risk balances on the pure bet that the battery manufacturing business sector required for pure EVs can be ramped-up at around 1000% that of that required for the mixed hybrid/EV model ....whilst you're waiting for 80% of the manufacturing capacity required to be commissioned to meet a 90% pure EV approach, the same environmental savings would likely have been met at least one or two vehicle generations earlier ...

Now, let's introduce fracking, or more importantly, lack of it ..... why is this relevant, well here we have a raw material extraction process that is inherently safe in concept and has little visual impact at the surface, yet there are numerous groups that have led to even the earliest test sites being delayed by year-after-year ... fine, now what's the potential reaction of suddenly placing a planning application poster up in Cornwall that effectively says ...

'Sorry about the effect on your local tourist industry, but because we know you have a significant resource of Lithium, a toxic alkali metal, we're going to need to either dig a great big hole (it'll be very long, very wide & very deep!) or drill big holes, frack the substrata and pump lots of brine into the ground and have toxic settling ponds on the surface' ...

... okay, it's extreme, but effectively that's the issue ..... plan to dig a hole near a village anywhere in the UK and the newt-loving metropolitan protestors from all over the country suddenly become concerned locals demanding a voice ... then again there's fracking for a highly toxic resource using brine as opposed to simply using water to open up gas pockets - I just wonder how that would go down with a ready made set of protest groups? ... multiply the demand by 10, multiply the issue by a factor far exceeding 10 ... that's the concern and that's what will slow down the extraction of resources in the UK and many other 'developed' countries ... this creates unnecessary immediate constraints on supply, keeps global prices high and stunts the growth of the EV sector .....


.... solve this simple quandary in the next couple of years and the pure EV approach may have a slim chance, if not then any proposals based on a 2030-2035-2040 ban on pure ICE'd vehicles become little more than pie-in-the-sky ....

Safety vs Risk ... a market sector risk assessment would inevitably look to reduce the risk of failure as the alternative would be catastrophic for both the industry & the environment ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

If the plug-in hybrid option is taken and is successful then at a point in time when battery manufacturing capacity can cope somewhere around 90% of mileage would likely be electrified .... however, at the same point in time in the confined battery manufacturing capacity scenario then only 10% of mileage would be in EV mode if we go down the pure EV route (ie ban hybrid sales) ...

HTH
Z

Here's a thought, how about H2 hybrids?

To be clear, I'm not a fan of H2 v's BEV's as I think a BEV is superior, but it just struck me that a plug in H2 car would solve both the problem of battery shortage during build out, and the removal of the ICE.

I suppose the downside is that we'd still have to roll out a H2 infrastructure, and large scale production of H2, but, it's a thought