Polyurethane Form Insulation a good idea?

Furts

diymonkey wrote: »

Guys, thank you for your replies.

Firstly let me clarify, the foam insulation I'm getting is not WALLTITE, but it's actually TECHNITHERM from ISOTHANE.

I can only apologise and hope I haven't got this wrong but I think you guys are looking at the wrong link and would be grateful if you could clarify this, but it seems from the certificates that both WALLTITE & TECHNITHERM are okay for cavities between 40mm & 200mm:-

"4.1 Technitherm Cavity Wall Insulation is satisfactory for use as an injected cavity wall insulation and is effective in reducing the thermal transmittance (U value) of external cavity walls, with masonry inner and outer leaves (where masonry includes clay and calcium silicate bricks, concrete blocks, and natural and reconstituted stone blocks). The system is for use in new and existing domestic and non-domestic buildings up to and including 12 m in height (and above that height when the Certificate holder has issued a Height Restriction Waiver), with cavity widths not less than 40 mm or greater than 200 mm. It is essential that such walls are designed and constructed to incorporate the precautions given in this Certificate to prevent moisture penetration."

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/your-search-results/?search_type=cert&keywords=technitherm&src=s

4.1 BASF Walltite CV 100 Cavity Wall Insulation is satisfactory for use as an injected cavity wall insulation and is effective in reducing the thermal transmittance (U value) of external cavity walls, with masonry inner and outer leaves (where masonry includes clay and calcium silicate bricks, concrete blocks, and natural and reconstituted stone blocks). The product is for use in new and existing domestic and non-domestic buildings up to and including 12 m in height, with cavity widths not less than 40 mm nor greater than 200 mm. It is essential that such walls are designed and constructed to incorporate the precautions given in this Certificate to prevent moisture penetration.

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/your-search-results/?search_type=cert&keywords=walltite&src=s


thebaldwindowfitter - The condensation is so far much less than before. I don't know if this is because of the heating or weather changing and we'll just have to wait a bit longer to confirm.

I am not interested in the Walltite because it is a different product. This is the red herring introduced by baldwindowfitter. Neither am I interested in the sales spin claims for Technitherm. My only concern, and your only concern, should be the BBA Certificate for Technitherm. This is simply reiterating what I have already pointed you to. The information is on the Web and if you read it with care your alarm bells should ring. For example, I have commented on cavity widths. Here if you live in Northern Ireland the product would be banned from use on your home. Logic dictates there is not a unique status to NI so why is it not banned elsewhere?

A few random further examples...There is reference to damp issues in the BBA, and the obvious clause about cavity closures at the head of the walls.

There are considerable risks with this product and that is why I would not entertain using it on my home.

thebaldwindowfitter

Furts wrote: »

I am not interested in the Walltite because it is a different product. This is the red herring introduced by baldwindowfitter. Neither am I interested in the sales spin claims for Technitherm. My only concern, and your only concern, should be the BBA Certificate for Technitherm. This is simply reiterating what I have already pointed you to. The information is on the Web and if you read it with care your alarm bells should ring. For example, I have commented on cavity widths. Here if you live in Northern Ireland the product would be banned from use on your home. Logic dictates there is not a unique status to NI so why is it not banned elsewhere?

A few random further examples...There is reference to damp issues in the BBA, and the obvious clause about cavity closures at the head of the walls. There are considerable risks with this product and that is why I would not entertain using it on my home.

i did not introduce a red hearing a gave a similiar product details based on information given by yourself on cavity restrictions of injected foam insulation it was not till i did this that the actual product was reveiled . You now despite mentioning bba certification in your first post have gone from not recommending the product to then recommending the product and now you have made an about turn again . you have now found some new information in the bba cert for this product and said to Diymonkey do your research why not make it easier for them by copying and pasting this part of the document you refer to the poster is asking for help and i for one would think this would assist .

diymonkey

Furts with all due respect, I feel thebaldwindowfitter is right in saying that instead of explaining or copying/pasting what part of the bba certificate you are referring to, you've simply told me to go and do my own research. I then have clearly pasted the BBA snippets for both TECHNITHERM & WALLTITE insulation that were of interest to our topic, but you've u-turned. How about pasting the stuff you are talking about, so that we don't have to try and find that needle in the haystack and allow us all scrutinise it?

Also I don't live in northern ireland, so I don't see how it affects me.

bluesnake

I lost the thread of the argument many conversation ago, and as an outsider am totally confused - good luck diymonkey!

The thing that i envisage that this will be an airtight house with cold spots, that will be an insulated mouldy cesspit, and that perhaps before insulating you should think at worst about making your own hvr or much better if you buy one.

I'm sure there are many plans out there for HVR like http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/DIYHRV/DIYHRV.htm

diymonkey

bluesnake wrote: »

I lost the thread of the argument many conversation ago, and as an outsider am totally confused - good luck diymonkey!

The thing that i envisage that this will be an airtight house with cold spots, that will be an insulated mouldy cesspit, and that perhaps before insulating you should think at worst about making your own hvr or much better if you buy one.

I'm sure there are many plans out there for HVR like http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/DIYHRV/DIYHRV.htm

Bluesnake mate, I'm not sure why you suddenly think this is a bad idea as the last time you posted, you were asking me to measure the cavity gap, to which I gave the answers in post #30

Furts

diymonkey wrote: »

Furts with all due respect, I feel thebaldwindowfitter is right in saying that instead of explaining or copying/pasting what part of the bba certificate you are referring to, you've simply told me to go and do my own research. I then have clearly pasted the BBA snippets for both TECHNITHERM & WALLTITE insulation that were of interest to our topic, but you've u-turned. How about pasting the stuff you are talking about, so that we don't have to try and find that needle in the haystack and allow us all scrutinise it?

Also I don't live in northern ireland, so I don't see how it affects me.

I have not U turned - my position remains as it always was. I would not have the product in my home.

If one puts Technitherm BBA Certificate into Google it comes at the top of the page. Do I really need to provide a link to something so obvious?

My comment on Northern Ireland is to warn you but clearly you feel this warning is irrelevant. To give an anecdotal example had Technitherm been used on my home it would have caused extensive, and expensive, damage. You run this risk but that is your choice.

I repeat my earlier comment - all consumers should read and scrutinise every aspect of the the relevant BBA Certificate before getting insulation installed. We are now on page three of this thread and my intuition is that you have not done this.

Ultimately, you have to decide. If you wish to have the product then you move to the next stage. Buildings Regulations, Approved Contractors, checking them out, inspecting work done, confirming status with CIGA and so on. It has taken 47 posts to get this far, so we could be in for a long ride!

bluesnake

diymonkey wrote: »

Bluesnake mate, I'm not sure why you suddenly think this is a bad idea as the last time you posted, you were asking me to measure the cavity gap, to which I gave the answers in post #30

Because in an ideal world bigger the gap, the more insulation and more heat saving you can make. A small gap will mean the thermal resistance may not be enough, or waste of time/money. You could work out how much insulation you would get by measuring the gap. Also foam can only fill so much.

Condensation and product specs are another subject.

Mine has loose fill blown cavity insulation and the difference is very noticeable. I did not have much of a humidity problem to start with, and fixed it by shutting my kitchen door and opening the window when cooking.

System

tbh there isn't a product I would use to fully fill a cavity on any building.
Having seem my mil's house develop huge damp issues due to badly installed cwi and having to pay a small fortune to have it removed from my own house, it's not something I would trust to a new advancement in technology.
Cavities are built in for a reason (or designed out of walls) retrospectively altering the way the wall functions with a method that is proven to be inconsistent at best and hugely problematic at worse doesn't seem like where the smart money goes.
CWI was introduced by government scratching around to meet energy targets without any real understanding of the suitability to the uk housing stock

diymonkey

Furts wrote: »

I have not U turned - my position remains as it always was. I would not have the product in my home.

If one puts Technitherm BBA Certificate into Google it comes at the top of the page. Do I really need to provide a link to something so obvious?

My comment on Northern Ireland is to warn you but clearly you feel this warning is irrelevant. To give an anecdotal example had Technitherm been used on my home it would have caused extensive, and expensive, damage. You run this risk but that is your choice.

I repeat my earlier comment - all consumers should read and scrutinise every aspect of the the relevant BBA Certificate before getting insulation installed. We are now on page three of this thread and my intuition is that you have not done this.

Ultimately, you have to decide. If you wish to have the product then you move to the next stage. Buildings Regulations, Approved Contractors, checking them out, inspecting work done, confirming status with CIGA and so on. It has taken 47 posts to get this far, so we could be in for a long ride!

Sorry, but to say go google it is quite patronising, because if you had noticed, I've already posted the direct links to these BBA certs for both Walltite and Technitherm. What I'm interested in is that you mentioned risk of damp, but I wanted to know where within the certificate it mentions about damp, like you stated in post #33. You keep warning off people, but you have to back it up with evidence, so please show me on the certificate where these issues are mentioned.

As for the number of posts....well this is a discussion to which your contributing too. Even if it went on for a 1000 posts it doesn't make a difference because I like others am here to find solutions, therefore it shouldn't matter how many posts this thread goes on as I'm sure others would find it valuable if they ever come across it.

diymonkey

bluesnake wrote: »

Because in an ideal world bigger the gap, the more insulation and more heat saving you can make. A small gap will mean the thermal resistance may not be enough, or waste of time/money. You could work out how much insulation you would get by measuring the gap. Also foam can only fill so much.

Condensation and product specs are another subject.

Mine has loose fill blown cavity insulation and the difference is very noticeable. I did not have much of a humidity problem to start with, and fixed it by shutting my kitchen door and opening the window when cooking.

Thanks bluesnake. As you can see, the measurements of cavity I've posted of 130mm to 160mm are pretty wide and therefore should be very good for heat saving. My worries are that upon getting this insulation job done:-

• wind-driven rain could saturate the stones/insulation & cause damp or at least a cold-bridge
• condensation due to no proper air-circulation would cause mould/damp

I know some might think I'm going into this without thinking, but if I was then I wouldn't have bothered creating this thread. I can assure you I'm looking into every aspect of this. For example, I've found a

FULL CAVITY INSULATION REPORT BY BBA.

which is of a very interesting find.

the_r_sole wrote: »

tbh there isn't a product I would use to fully fill a cavity on any building.
Having seem my mil's house develop huge damp issues due to badly installed cwi and having to pay a small fortune to have it removed from my own house, it's not something I would trust to a new advancement in technology.
Cavities are built in for a reason (or designed out of walls) retrospectively altering the way the wall functions with a method that is proven to be inconsistent at best and hugely problematic at worse doesn't seem like where the smart money goes.
CWI was introduced by government scratching around to meet energy targets without any real understanding of the suitability to the uk housing stock

Thanks for your input r_sole. The problem with doing nothing with the cavity is that it is costing a huge amount of money to heat the home and I need to look at all aspects and possibilities to make the house warmer. I've already instructed someone to do roof insulation, but I don't think this alone will be enough. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.