Polyurethane Form Insulation a good idea?

diymonkey

thebaldwindowfitter wrote: »

These days people want a warm draught free house fully sealed but you havent got this and this with your old heating pattern can cause condensation can you answer a few more questions
Is the loft room able to be shut off either by a door if so i would try temporarily taping up this door or putting some form of cover over because this could be creating a cold spot in upstairs rooms (your hopefully free insulation will help this but bear with me )

Same with Basement is your ground floor insulated /carpeted or bare floor boards laminate

Ground floor vents could you temporarily cover these up with cardboard or bubble wrap
the measurements are these cavity sizesor from face of outside wall /fascade
any insulation is worthwhile

The reason i have asked you to do the above is i feel your house is as you say in an exposed outlook you are getting plenty of cold air in basement /ground floor through ventilation and loft room then you have been heating this cold air up for a few hours a day which has been causing your condensation . Hope this helps once you have sorted this issue the foam insulation is better than all others in my opinion

Thanks for the advice. We already have a shut loft door and this is nicely sealed with draught proofing strips, so no cold air leaking.

The basement I must add has two vents. These were originally sealed possibly by previous occupiers. I opened these up in summer due to no air circulation. However now that it's winter, it's absolutely freezing and lots of air circulation. The basement ceiling has no insulation and the floor in the hallway which is above the basement is laminated.

The ground floor vents.. How do I cover these up? On outside or inside?

The cavity measurements are of the gap between the two inner stone walls

Furts

Your 40mm cavity would be deemed hard to treat because cavities were standardised at 2 inches - which is more. Your problem could be the huge cavities elsewhere - would these be deemed hard to treat? In addition, my instinct is the BBA testing will not have been for huge cavities. Which prompts the question - what is the wording on the BBA certificate? I assume you have sought a copy and scrutinised all the details.

I have the certificate applicable to my home and I think this is only applicable to normal cavities. Going by memory the certificate does not cover topics like damp, condensation and breathability. These are huge omissions and done for a good reason! You have concerns here, and were it my home I would not be having the Isothene installed.

diymonkey

Furts wrote: »

Your 40mm cavity would be deemed hard to treat because cavities were standardised at 2 inches - which is more. Your problem could be the huge cavities elsewhere - would these be deemed hard to treat? In addition, my instinct is the BBA testing will not have been for huge cavities. Which prompts the question - what is the wording on the BBA certificate? I assume you have sought a copy and scrutinised all the details.

I have the certificate applicable to my home and I think this is only applicable to normal cavities. Going by memory the certificate does not cover topics like damp, condensation and breathability.

I'm not sure how to check whether larger cavities are covered and not sure what to look for on any paperwork. Btw I don't get any paperwork until job is completed, right?

These are huge omissions and done for a good reason! You have concerns here, and were it my home I would be having the Isothene installed.

I'm sorry, but maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought in the previous quote you were saying to be careful, so are you saying that I definitely should go ahead and get it installed? Btw, it's definitely isothane that would be pumped into the cavity.

thebaldwindowfitter

The foam is used for narrow cavities and even solid walls if you read the bumf about it here wide cavities are not mentioned that i would of thought if they have surveyed it and given you the green light then i would definatly have it done . We have done plenty of roofline jobs were the polystyrene balls or the blown in flock is all over the place

http://walltite.basf.co.uk/applications/wall-applications/hard-to-treat-cavities

thebaldwindowfitter

That is of course after soting out your condensation and damp issues

Furts

diymonkey wrote: »

I'm not sure how to check whether larger cavities are covered and not sure what to look for on any paperwork. Btw I don't get any paperwork until job is completed, right?





I'm sorry, but maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought in the previous quote you were saying to be careful, so are you saying that I definitely should go ahead and get it installed? Btw, it's definitely isothane that would be pumped into the cavity.

My typo! Should have inserted not, so apologies.

Coming onto the BBA, no consumer should have CWI undertaken without first scrutinising the BBA Certificate. It is as fundamental as not buying a secondhand car until you have first taken it for a test drive. My intuition is the BBA Certificate will not apply to larger than normal cavities. But here it is your role to check this out and establish the facts.

thebaldwindowfitter

http://walltite.basf.co.uk/applications/wall-applications/refurbished-masonry-wall-insulation-timber-frame
it says
WALLTITE® can be applied directly onto a solid masonry wall, between 90mm or 140mm timber studs, without the need for traditional adhesion promoters or mechanical fixings.

and
Thickness of WALLTITE (mm) U-value (W/m2k)
130 0.20
http://walltite.basf.co.uk/downloads/bba-certification
mentions 130mm cavities i will let you read the rest

diymonkey

Guys, thank you for your replies.

Firstly let me clarify, the foam insulation I'm getting is not WALLTITE, but it's actually TECHNITHERM from ISOTHANE.

I can only apologise and hope I haven't got this wrong but I think you guys are looking at the wrong link and would be grateful if you could clarify this, but it seems from the certificates that both WALLTITE & TECHNITHERM are okay for cavities between 40mm & 200mm:-

"4.1 Technitherm Cavity Wall Insulation is satisfactory for use as an injected cavity wall insulation and is effective in reducing the thermal transmittance (U value) of external cavity walls, with masonry inner and outer leaves (where masonry includes clay and calcium silicate bricks, concrete blocks, and natural and reconstituted stone blocks). The system is for use in new and existing domestic and non-domestic buildings up to and including 12 m in height (and above that height when the Certificate holder has issued a Height Restriction Waiver), with cavity widths not less than 40 mm or greater than 200 mm. It is essential that such walls are designed and constructed to incorporate the precautions given in this Certificate to prevent moisture penetration."

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/your-search-results/?search_type=cert&keywords=technitherm&src=s

4.1 BASF Walltite CV 100 Cavity Wall Insulation is satisfactory for use as an injected cavity wall insulation and is effective in reducing the thermal transmittance (U value) of external cavity walls, with masonry inner and outer leaves (where masonry includes clay and calcium silicate bricks, concrete blocks, and natural and reconstituted stone blocks). The product is for use in new and existing domestic and non-domestic buildings up to and including 12 m in height, with cavity widths not less than 40 mm nor greater than 200 mm. It is essential that such walls are designed and constructed to incorporate the precautions given in this Certificate to prevent moisture penetration.

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/your-search-results/?search_type=cert&keywords=walltite&src=s


thebaldwindowfitter - The condensation is so far much less than before. I don't know if this is because of the heating or weather changing and we'll just have to wait a bit longer to confirm.

thebaldwindowfitter

diymonkey wrote: »

Guys, thank you for your replies.

Firstly let me clarify, the foam insulation I'm getting is not WALLTITE, but it's actually TECHNITHERM from ISOTHANE.

I can only apologise and hope I haven't got this wrong but I think you guys are looking at the wrong link and would be grateful if you could clarify this, but it seems from the certificates that both WALLTITE & TECHNITHERM are okay for cavities between 40mm & 200mm:-

"4.1 Technitherm Cavity Wall Insulation is satisfactory for use as an injected cavity wall insulation and is effective in reducing the thermal transmittance (U value) of external cavity walls, with masonry inner and outer leaves (where masonry includes clay and calcium silicate bricks, concrete blocks, and natural and reconstituted stone blocks). The system is for use in new and existing domestic and non-domestic buildings up to and including 12 m in height (and above that height when the Certificate holder has issued a Height Restriction Waiver), with cavity widths not less than 40 mm or greater than 200 mm. It is essential that such walls are designed and constructed to incorporate the precautions given in this Certificate to prevent moisture penetration."

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/your-search-results/?search_type=cert&keywords=technitherm&src=s

4.1 BASF Walltite CV 100 Cavity Wall Insulation is satisfactory for use as an injected cavity wall insulation and is effective in reducing the thermal transmittance (U value) of external cavity walls, with masonry inner and outer leaves (where masonry includes clay and calcium silicate bricks, concrete blocks, and natural and reconstituted stone blocks). The product is for use in new and existing domestic and non-domestic buildings up to and including 12 m in height, with cavity widths not less than 40 mm nor greater than 200 mm. It is essential that such walls are designed and constructed to incorporate the precautions given in this Certificate to prevent moisture penetration.

http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/your-search-results/?search_type=cert&keywords=walltite&src=s


thebaldwindowfitter - The condensation is so far much less than before. I don't know if this is because of the heating or weather changing and we'll just have to wait a bit longer to confirm.

i would say they are one and the same or at least very similiar . Have you tried covering your ground floor vents tape over some buble wrap or something . I had a three bed semi which had a crawl space underneath of about 5 ft which was well ventilated and varnished floor boards and found that draughts could be felt at skirting level i sealed this with a clear silicon i also fitted rigid insulation between ground joists

diymonkey

thebaldwindowfitter wrote: »

i would say they are one and the same or at least very similiar . Have you tried covering your ground floor vents tape over some buble wrap or something . I had a three bed semi which had a crawl space underneath of about 5 ft which was well ventilated and varnished floor boards and found that draughts could be felt at skirting level i sealed this with a clear silicon i also fitted rigid insulation between ground joists

Assuming they are similar, which is the correct max amount? 140mm or 200mm?

I don't know if there will be any point in covering the ground floor vents mate, as there are two more in the bedroom and bathroom, near to the roof which are too high to reach and cover.

I've actually got some guys coming around in a couple of weeks to put kingspan & rockwool insulation in the roof. They will also put rockwool in the cellar's ceiling which should hopefully stop cold draught cooling down our hallway. I haven't got anywhere near a 5ft suspended floor drop (more like 2ft or so), so I can't insulate the rest of the rooms, but I plan to eventually take out a hole in the cellar wall and make a small doorway to access these parts which will give me the opportunity to insulate the rest too.