Why are leavers so angry

chucknorris

Thrugelmir wrote: »

My mothers father never fully accepted my father. Losing blood relatives in 2 conflicts left an indelible mark. Even though my father was actually born here in the UK. His father being an economic migrant from Germany.

Go to Cyprus today and they still harbour deep grudges for the atrocities committed against their people. The list goes on.

When I first got engaged, the first thing that my prospective FIL said to us after we told him, was 'I don't believe in mixed marriages!' I was so naive at the time, I didn't even know what he was on about, and I said 'But I'm white' (by the way I am not racist, the woman that I did eventually marry is not white). He then said, but you are not catholic, which actually made me laugh, as I thought what the hell does that matter? That was my first expose to religious nutters.

BobQ

CLAPTON wrote: »

clearly insufficient employers train, otherwise there would only be very few occasions where importing people would be necessary.

Very true, the plan to expand tertiary education has meant that employers see universities and colleges as sources of trained recruits and so have not invested (as much) in training. The fact that this saves them money in the present and creates demand for better qualified people from abroad does not help.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/strategy_en#collaborative_economy

It also means doing things like helping SMEs funded by the EU budget.

thanks for the link

yes, some seems to be examples of bureaucrates empire building and some seems relevant to improving the functioning of the single market.

as we get nearer to actual brexit, the differences between what people actaully mean by single market, customs union etc become more important

BobQ

Sapphire wrote: »

Tribalism tends to become prevalent when people begin to feel their way of life is being threatened. There's nothing that can be done about it – it's a basic human survival instinct, like the instinctive drive to breed, as in the other great apes. You can see it in action all over the world even today (not all countries/areas have the luxury to engage in PCisms of various kinds, as many affluent Westerners do).

I agree but is it also indicative of why some people voted to Brexit? Fear of Polish, Romanian, Muslim etc?

Doshwaster

BobQ wrote: »

Very true, the plan to expand tertiary education has meant that employers see universities and colleges as sources of trained recruits and so have not invested (as much) in training. The fact that this saves them money in the present and creates demand for better qualified people from abroad does not help.

Err... let me get this right. So it's wrong for Universities and Colleges to educate people for businesses and the public sector to employ?

Sapphire

BobQ wrote: »

Very true, the plan to expand tertiary education has meant that employers see universities and colleges as sources of trained recruits and so have not invested (as much) in training. The fact that this saves them money in the present and creates demand for better qualified people from abroad does not help.

I think that there's another problem – and I'm not sure how it can be solved. For hundreds of years of Britain's history, people migrated from the countryside of England, Wales and Ireland to London and the other great cities in order to obtain work. There was a time when you came across many Irishmen in London, for example – in recent years I've only met a couple, a builder and a central heating engineer. These people were all seeking work due to the impoverishment of other parts of the Kingdom. There were no benefits at the time, so people would either starve or migrate to cities where there was work. There were influxes of people from abroad, like the persecuted Hugueonot (sp.?) weavers from France, the Saphardic Jews from Spain and Ashkenazi Jews from Russia (or Russian territories), and Chinese and Indians who dropped off ships in the East End, though such people did not arrive in overwhelming numbers. They formed their own communities and were of benefit to Britain.

Now, however, the situation is very different. I believe there is a bit of a problem with the fact that benefits are so accessible to British people that they do not have to come to London to obtain work. The work they would be doing is being done by migrants from outside the UK. It may be, also, that these people are less trouble to employers than the indigenous people would be (strikes were a pestilence that was incredibly harmful to the economy and many people a few decades ago). Their influx also allows wages to drop lower and lower, to the benefit of employers and (often very) affluent people who stand to gain from this. It's a tendency that (unless tackled) is only going to increase due to automation, fewer and fewer jobs, and a huge increase in populations.

This situation is not good for the indigenous population living on benefits or, ultimately, for the 'cheap labourers' who have been bought in. And what is going to happen to all these people when more and more jobs disappear, especially with a scarily rising population? One could foresee the death of the 'middle class', and the existence of only very rich and very poor people…:cool:

Sapphire

BobQ wrote: »

I agree but is it also indicative of why some people voted to Brexit? Fear of Polish, Romanian, Muslim etc?

Yes. When it comes to the huge influx of continental Europeans, it is probably partly due to fear of loss of identity and the impression that the situation is out of control, with the authorities not being aware of who is entering the country, both legally and illegally. There's also fear of crime and terrorism – hence the rise of right-wing parties and movements on the Continent.

BobQ

Doshwaster wrote: »

Err... let me get this right. So it's wrong for Universities and Colleges to educate people for businesses and the public sector to employ?

I never said that. If the education meets the needs of employers it probably does not matter. However, some employers complain that this is not the case.

I was simply noting that employers who used to spend their money to train staff in the skills that they needed, now save some of that money and expect staff to arrive with qualifications funded by some combination of the state and the student.

CLAPTON

BobQ wrote: »

I never said that. If the education meets the needs of employers it probably does not matter. However, some employers complain that this is not the case.

I was simply noting that employers who used to spend their money to train staff in the skills that they needed, now save some of that money and expect staff to arrive with qualifications funded by some combination of the state and the student.

if employers find they have a ready supply of suitably skilled people, they have no reason to train them;
whether these employees are self trained, state (UK) trained or imported would not matter.

ruggedtoast

And now we've slipped behind India in the GDP world rankings.

Thanks a lot Brexitards.

Great job.