Why are leavers so angry

Graham_Devon

Herzlos wrote: »

*The older generations tend to have more wealth, and don't need to directly deal with things like getting on the property market, getting a job, getting an education. Then there's the statistical fact that by the time we've actually finished negotiating this, more "leavers" will have died of old age than "remainers". Push things back far enough using just the demographics and no cultural change at it'd take less than 10 years for the vote to shift from leave to remain.

All of the items you list are more likely to affect the younger generation more so with increased immigration.

WIth more people, theres more competition for houses, more for education placements and more for jobs.

The biggest issue that helped the leave vote was free movement.

If you want a better chance of getting a place in education, getting a house or getting a job, put simply, you want less competition.

BobQ

Wake_up_call wrote: »

It is far less hateful that those remain voters who incorrectly claim that everyone who voted leave is either a) thick b) racist or c) thick and racist.


Sorry, but the most disgusting comments that have come to fore in the past six months have overwhelmingly come from remain voters, including the recent Twitter trend of laughing at a report that shows the number of elderly people that have died since June and claiming that is a good thing because it reduces the number of people who voted leave.

Did anyone ever say that EVERYONE who voted leave was thick or racist? I grant you that a small proportion of those voting leave appeared to have those characteristics.

I cannot disagree with your last paragraph as I do not use Twitter. But two wrongs do not make a right.

BobQ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The very fact that this thread has been started surely shows the direction the vitriol is coming from?

The vitriol did not come from my original post, but it did come in some of the Brexit supporters posts.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

The older generations tend to have more wealth

Why wouldn't they. Isn't that part of the cycle of life.

BobQ

mrginge wrote: »

Why don't you try and be a bit more conciliatory. Maybe a first step at admitting that your privileged world view is not shared by or experienced by many millions of people. Perhaps then you can move forward with the rest of us instead of being so grumpy?

.

Possibly because any conciliatory comment that does not comply with the evangelical beliefs of the hard Brexiteers, any comment that expresses a different view on how to leave the EU, or expresses a need to achieve a sensible way of departing the EU, is often greeted with accusations of Remoaning or worse still.

Conciliation requires the hard line side of the Brexit supporters to accept that there are different shades of grey as to how we leave. There is no sign of that happening.

mrginge

Herzlos wrote: »

I think the people affected by a vote should have some weighting in their direction. Things that mostly affect youth: should get more of a say. Things that affect Women: should get more of a say. And so on.

That's an interesting viewpoint.
How else do you think we should discriminate against minorities in society?
Perhaps we should have special areas for certain 'types' of people to live in?

BobQ

Cornucopia wrote: »

There are at least four parts to what is going on.

- A democratic part e.g. saying that post-Brexit we should ensure that we have a proper plan in place for dealing with the citizens of EU countries in the UK (and UK citizens in the EU).

Nothing wrong this

- A semi-undemocratic part e.g. seeking to influence the post-Brexit environment to make it as much like it was before as possible. Thereby defeating the purpose of a clear yes/no ballot.

Do you understand democracy? A clear vote to leave means that in a timeframe of the Government's choosing we WILL leave the EU and so honour the ballot result.

It is not undemocratic (or even semi-democratic -whatever that is) to advocate remaining, ask for another ballot, or to advocate different ways in which the result of the ballot can be delivered. It is the very essence of democracy that people are free to do any of these things.

- Undemocratic whinging about the result and how it is all lies and ignorance (and worse).

Whinging is an expression of freedom of speech which is fundamental to democracy. Once you seek to deny free speech you are on a very slippery slope.

- Taking no account whatsoever of one of the key fears of the electorate (the completely disproportionate political, cultural and economic influence of the metropolitan elite) through the metropolitan elite seeking to interfere with the delivery of the ballot result in the Courts. This was a completely unnecessary exercise of privilege and the notion that the sovereignty of Parliament required enforcement from the outside is circular nonsense. If these people have so much legal resource to spare, let them fight for something worthwhile.

That is your opinion, but if you want to stop people having the right to challenge ANY executive decision of Government in the courts just because you agree with it, that will set an awful precedent for refusing a challenge to an executive decision that you disagree with.

mrginge

BobQ wrote: »

Possibly because any conciliatory comment that does not comply with the evangelical beliefs of the hard Brexiteers, any comment that expresses a different view on how to leave the EU, or expresses a need to achieve a sensible way of departing the EU, is often greeted with accusations of Remoaning or worse still.

Conciliation requires the hard line side of the Brexit supporters to accept that there are different shades of grey as to how we leave. There is no sign of that happening.

So you've missed all the recent discussions about transitional deals, paying of memberships fees and possibility of staying in the customs union?

ruggedtoast

Malthusian wrote: »

Yes, because they spend too much time on Facebook.

The idea that the young are having their opportunity to work or study in Europe snatched away from them is nonsense. Hardly any of the youth of Britain have any interest in getting a job or going to uni in Europe, as 90% of them can't speak a word of any language other than English. Those that want to still can, after filling in one extra form to apply for a visa. Given the barriers that exist against moving to another country (cultural and logistical) regardless of the Schengen area, anyone who thinks getting a visa is an insurmountable obstacle didn't really want to go anyway.

Nor does it affect the gap year crowd - nearly everyone I knew who did a gap year travelled in Asia, Africa or South America rather than Europe. Millennials are far less parochial than Remainders think.

It's a ludicrous idea which calls to mind that hilarious "CHILLIN - RAVIN - #VOTIN" advert that helped seal it for Brexit.

Having the right to move to another country and study and work there is completely different to having to apply for a visa.

If you truly can't understand that, I suggest you try really hard and imagine that you need to pass a checkpoint to get to your office.

Now imagine you are laid off, and you can't go to that part of town again.

As much as you want to tell yourselves that everything's fine and young people don't care because the new season of TOWIE is out. Well forget it. They do care and they pretty much blame older people.

Sad for the older people that didn't vote for Brexit insanity, but there just weren't enough of them to tip the balance.

BobQ

mufi wrote: »

Yes, but you'll have to wait 41 years, like I did. In 1975, being young and naïve, I voted to remain in the Common Market.

It does not work like that, if things go well people will forget what has happened. If things go badly we might find us reapplying less than a decade.

Frankly, if you voted for it you only have yourself to blame. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

Having seen what happened in subsequent years I, and many others, saw the error of our ways and voted out. It's been a long wait...

And will live with the consequences of it (for good or bad). Having seen the UK economy grow over the decades of EU membership, you will have to decide if the future growth means you are content with your decision.