Straw poll: Do you want to retain FOM?

kabayiri

Doshwaster wrote: »

...

Where do you get the idea we have "unlimited migration" from? You try turning up in the UK without a job, somewhere to live and with no money and see how far you get. Despite the myths you won't be given a council house and enough money to live on.

Over 120,000 did just that in the last set of figures.

Would you move to somewhere like Germany without a job plan?

LHW99

I don't see why I should have fewer rights to live and work across Europe than someone with an Irish passport.

Conversely do you feel you should have more rights to live and work in Europe than, say someone from India, Morocco or China (say)?
If so, why?

Redknapps_Dog

Doshwaster wrote: »

I am not special but I don't see why I should have fewer rights to live and work across Europe than someone with an Irish passport. The people who think themselves "special" are the Leavers who think that they are somehow better than johnny foreigner.

Where do you get the idea we have "unlimited migration" from? You try turning up in the UK without a job, somewhere to live and with no money and see how far you get. Despite the myths you won't be given a council house and enough money to live on.

Last sentence is very true, but there's too much of a sense of entitlement in every tier of society from estate scumbags to the establishment.


Maybe brexit will remedy that.


I'm lucky in that I've got an Irish passport, none of this silly visa nonsense for me. Or waiting at airports.

Doshwaster

LHW99 wrote: »

Conversely do you feel you should have more rights to live and work in Europe than, say someone from India, Morocco or China (say)?
If so, why?

Err... maybe because I consider the UK to be part of Europe? I'm not asking for more rights than other Europeans, just the same as they've got.

If (and it's still a big "if") we do lose FOM then I'm still struggling to see what the advantage there will be to me.

CLAPTON

Doshwaster wrote: »

Err... maybe because I consider the UK to be part of Europe? I'm not asking for more rights than other Europeans, just the same as they've got.

If (and it's still a big "if") we do lose FOM then I'm still struggling to see what the advantage there will be to me.

what do you mean by being 'part of europe' : sharing the land mass, sharing tax revenues, having common legal system, having a common language or what exactly ?

Thrugelmir

Doshwaster wrote: »

If (and it's still a big "if") we do lose FOM then I'm still struggling to see what the advantage there will be to me.

Me. Me. Me. Me.

Then you wonder why people voted leave.

A certainty that FoM will be shelved.

Doshwaster

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Me. Me. Me. Me.

OK, so what about You. You. You? What do you have to benefit from losing out on free movement?

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then you wonder why people voted leave.

A certainty that FoM will be shelved.

Is there any certainty that will happen? Surely there must be some room for compromise to keep the "freedom" in all but name. You could have the right to work in another European country and live as long as you were self-sufficient but not to claim benefits.

Thrugelmir

Doshwaster wrote: »

OK, so what about You. You. You? What do you have to benefit from losing out on free movement?



Is there any certainty that will happen? Surely there must be some room for compromise to keep the "freedom" in all but name. You could have the right to work in another European country and live as long as you were self-sufficient but not to claim benefits.

Nothing at all. Never had the urge to work abroad in my working career. Languages not being my forte.

The EU has already previously dismissed suggestions of a pick n mix. There's one set of rules. Either accept them or not. These issues were already clear at the time of the referendum. Voting to leave won't have changed anything.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

...
The EU has already previously dismissed suggestions of a pick n mix. There's one set of rules. Either accept them or not. These issues were already clear at the time of the referendum. Voting to leave won't have changed anything.

One set of rules...

But there aren't in practice. 120,000 moved to the UK without even a job to go to. Now if someone in the UK used to our support system tried to move themselves and their family to Poland for work (as an example) it would be extremely difficult to manage the transition.

IMO true FoM only fully works when things like taxation and benefit systems are harmonised amongst the EU countries.

The other thing is that FoM says nothing about cultural barriers. Large numbers of Muslim people from Western European states could not move to Hungary or Poland because of basic hostility from those mainly Christian states.

I'd argue that right now, FoM is a middle class obsession.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

One set of rules...

FoM is one of the four pillars of the EU. One rule.

How an individual country wishes to enforce benefit or residency rules is another matter. Though is still subject to EU scrutiny if it's an amendment to existing legislation.