Straw poll: Do you want to retain FOM?

kabayiri

mwpt wrote: »

...
Yes, just like in the UK we have unlimited movement of people between the countries of Wales, Scotland, NI and England. And even within regions inside the countries. Unlimited]/b]

But unlimited is always practically constrained by logistics, as your fellow leave voters acknowledge.
...

Unlimited, but constrained by logistics, is actually not unlimited.

Did you know that migrants without work and with family needs are arriving at under strain housing departments like Hounslow.

The increasingly common response from these departments is to locate these families in other parts of the country, like Stoke On Trent, like Liverpool.

Can you explain to me how that can be described as Freedom of Movement?

John_Lilburne_2911

Doshwaster wrote: »

Ending FOM won't make it easier for you to get a job in Chile but it will make it harder to get one in Croatia.

I was in Malta recently and saw several businesses with staff wanted signs in the window saying "Must have EEA passport". Soon no Brits need apply.

I remember visiting countries like Malta pre FOM and the bureaucracy of getting into and out of the country took less than 5 minutes in filling out a visa at Luqa airport on arrival.

Some people seem to think post Brexit we will be delayed by hours in European airports being stripped searched,cavity searched and interogated as to what our reasons are for entering the country.

I've never had any delays in getting into European countries pre FOM so I'm at a loss why would in teh future especially given the advances in technology.

How many British citizens don't work in the EU compared to those who do?.:)

Doshwaster

John_Lilburne_2911 wrote: »

I remember visiting countries like Malta pre FOM and the bureaucracy of getting into and out of the country took less than 5 minutes in filling out a visa at Luqa airport on arrival.

EU Freedom of Movement isn't about the ability to visit other countries but the right to live or work there without any paperwork being required. A British Passport already entitles you to visa free travel to dozens of countries around the world.

If we are going to "take back control" and insist that anyone from another country (except Ireland) will need a work visa then surely other European countries will do the same to us. All of this will add cost and bureaucracy but for what benefit other than keeping some pen pushers in a job?

We are a globe trotting nation. We have more of our people living and work abroad than just about any other country and you can't go anywhere in the world without finding a British ex-pat community (of course they are "ex-pats" not immigrants)

John_Lilburne_2911

Doshwaster wrote: »

EU Freedom of Movement isn't about the ability to visit other countries but the right to live or work there without any paperwork being required. A British Passport already entitles you to visa free travel to dozens of countries around the world.

To what is probably a sizeable majority of the UK people FOM means very little in reality. Despite what some people may think ,the majority of people don't work in the EU and probably only visit for 2 weeks a year. A British passport entitles us all to have visa free travel to around 170 countries around the world. In fact along with the USA we have the greatest number of countries around the world for visa free access. This wasn't the work of the EU its the work of the British Government and how the UK is seen around the world as being a stable,secure ,forward thinking country.

If we are going to "take back control" and insist that anyone from another country (except Ireland) will need a work visa then surely other European countries will do the same to us. All of this will add cost and bureaucracy but for what benefit other than keeping some pen pushers in a job?

Technology has made people redundant in may industries so forget the notion whereby we would suddenly need 10,000 extra admin staff.

We are a globe trotting nation. We have more of our people living and work abroad than just about any other country and you can't go anywhere in the world without finding a British ex-pat community (of course they are "ex-pats" not immigrants)

Absolutely and we are a better place for having different cultures here and the rest of the world is a better place for having Brits around the globe but are you suggesting that Australia,Canada, Singapore,Malaysia etc are worse off because they don't have freedom of movement which allows the rest of the world has free,open access to these countries to visit, live and work in?.

kabayiri

John_Lilburne_2911 wrote: »

To what is probably a sizeable majority of the UK people FOM moeans very little in reality. Despite what some people may think ,the majority of people don't work in the EU and probably only visit for 2 weeks a year. A British passport entitles us all to have visa free travel to around 170 countries around the world. In fact along with the USA we have the greatest number of countries around the world for visa free access. This wasn't the work of the EU its the work of the British Government and how the UK is seen around the world as being a stable,secure ,forward thinking country.
...

I understand the point in bold above, but I think it's a little more refined.

To a sizeable majority the easy access to a relatively free market for work outside the UK means nothing.

But, these are exactly the type of people who are most likely to suffer competition from other EU people accessing the UK market.

It's like a double whammy.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

mwpt wrote: »

You are lying.

Is that really necessary?
Cease the name-calling please.
As well as being obviously incorrect it very amply demonstrates just how morally bereft you are.
Thus cementing your position as one more poster within these forums who cannot be trusted to do more than make snide comments and supply false argument.

Now to return to the point in question:

mwpt wrote: »

False question. Eh? No such thing - it was a question. Pure & simple. I believe the figures (available publicly) that EU immigrants are net contributors to our tax system and therefore they more than pay for the services they use. I acknowledge that if five million people arrive in a year, this would cause severe strain, but there is zero chance of this happening in practice, and like your leader CLAPTON says, we need to think practically. So five million more then? Is that your "this would be too many" answer?

I don't think the UK has seen mass migration to levels that are destabilising. No? So you deny the social issues; the problems of overcrowding and lack of infastructure; that 76% of the UK's public want to see immigration reduced * ......... and much, much more.

If it did, I would expect the government to kick in an emergency break and the EU to allow it, just as Cameron requested. Ah, so you would do what the UK public is asking NOW and reduce immigration as is supposedly being implemented as part of Brexit?
Great, NOW we're getting somewhere.

* https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem

Doshwaster

John_Lilburne_2911 wrote: »

To what is probably a sizeable majority of the UK people FOM means very little in reality.

If it means "very little" to them why was it such a big issue in the referendum?

Maybe it's because while they don't care about having the rights for themselves they want to deny them to others, including their children and fellow British citizens.

The "I don't want a right so other people shouldn't have it" train of though is quite sinister.

kabayiri

Doshwaster wrote: »

John_Lilburne_2911 wrote: »

If it means "very little" to them why was it such a big issue in the referendum?
...

I thought mass migration was the big issue. That is not exactly the same as FOM is it?

If the complaint was about FOM as a principle/process then people would complain about German migrants (as but one example).

But they don't. The numbers of German migrants here has remained pretty constant since 2004.

parking_question_chap

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The UK can cope with, and needs, much higher levels of immigration than we've had.

Totally agree

Schools for example.

Teachers lives are way too easy at the moment, what with only having about 7 different languages in each classroom. Surely our multicultural eutopia will not be complete until most of our classrooms have 30 kids speaking 30 languages.

John_Lilburne_2911

Doshwaster wrote: »

John_Lilburne_2911 wrote: »

If it means "very little" to them why was it such a big issue in the referendum?

Maybe it's because while they don't care about having the rights for themselves they want to deny them to others, including their children and fellow British citizens.

The "I don't want a right so other people shouldn't have it" train of though is quite sinister.

Perhaps I should have made my post clearer. What I mean is the vast majority of people in the UK don't work in the EU, have no intention of working in the EU and the only time FOM really kicks in is when they go to an EU country on holiday once a year. I think Kabayiri's post #99 sums up my opinion.

The benefit to Brits of FOM out of the UK to mainland EU is way over exaggerated.Thousands of Brits lived and worked quite successfully in mainland Europe well before the EU's FOM.