Straw poll: Do you want to retain FOM?

parking_question_chap

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

DWP statistics show that as of February 2015, just over 5 million people were claiming welfare benefits; of those, about 370,000 (7.2 per cent) were non-UK nationals (at the time that they registered for a National Insurance number; and of those, only 114,000 (2.2 percent of the total) were EU nationals. Since those born abroad make up 16 percent of the working age population, and those born in the EU make up about 6 percent, it can be seen that migrants of both types are considerably less likely to claim out-of-work benefits.

Just because 7.2% of total number people on benefits are immigrants, does not therefore mean that under 10% of immigrants claim benefits.

I am unsure if you are trying to be misleading or dont have a full grasp of statistics.

DevilsAdvocate1

Doshwaster wrote: »

So should people with talent, qualifications and ambition in Romania settle for a life of living there? Why shouldn't they move to Germany?

You can't help where you are born. If there are few career opportunities in your area then I don't sea why you should be disadvantaged against those who were lucky enough to grow up in a prosperous area. I'm from an ex-mining village in the North East. I like many others before (and since) moved away to seek our futures elsewhere.

That's all well and good, but I'm more interested in the people already living here now rather than someone who hasn't come here yet. We have plenty of people here who are not getting the training they need because employers can pick people up from outside this country who already have the skills they want.

Also, because they can get staff from anywhere, there has been an impact on wages. It was widely publicised a few weeks ago that wages have been stagnant since 2008 and that the massive increase in people moving here happened around 2004 onwards.

It seems its great for businesses as they can pay bottom dollar and not spend time and money training people. But what about our young. How are they to get trained or do we just write them off because we can get all the talent we need from abroad?

We then have the problem of not enough houses, school places, roads etc. House prices have shot up. Its harder and harder to get onto the housing ladder.

We're told that is all good when people come here. But its not if the people moving here move into minimum wage jobs. They are then entitled to all the benefits for those who were born here (if they come from within Europe). This must make them taken more than they actually give in taxes.

So, great for employers, but rubbish for those already living here (regardless of where they were born).

sashacat

I am a leave voted.
I wish to end FOM. This is the main reason I voted leave.
Is that clear OP?

Doshwaster

sashacat wrote: »

I am a leave voted.
I wish to end FOM. This is the main reason I voted leave.
Is that clear OP?

You may not want freedom of movement for yourself or your family but why do you think that I, as a UK passport holder, should lose my EU Treaty rights?

HornetSaver

Doshwaster wrote: »

There aren't enough unemployed people in the South East to do these jobs

If the working class could afford to live in the South East without feeling like they're busting their guts just to get above the poverty line, the labour supply would be more evenly distributed across the country.

I'd put the hypothesis out that that people who have ever moved from one UK region to another UK region for work-related reasons are disproportionately unlikely to be unemployed, no matter how long ago they made the move and where they are on the income scale. That hypothesis obviously excludes people who happen to live on the border between two regions and therefore cross the boundary without actually going that far.

gycraig_2

I wouldn't like to keep it we don't need anymore warehouse operatives for the big businesses to exploit.

We don't need any more parts of towns turning into !!!! holes, nor do we need to pay the excessive costs the extra births place on the NHS.

Doshwaster

HornetSaver wrote: »

If the working class could afford to live in the South East without feeling like they're busting their guts just to get above the poverty line, the labour supply would be more evenly distributed across the country.

One way to fix that could be a higher minimum wage across the whole South East and not just London. It's a lot easier to live on £6.50 and hour in Gateshead than Guildford.

HornetSaver wrote: »

I'd put the hypothesis out that that people who have ever moved from one UK region to another UK region for work-related reasons are disproportionately unlikely to be unemployed, no matter how long ago they made the move and where they are on the income scale. That hypothesis obviously excludes people who happen to live on the border between two regions and therefore cross the boundary without actually going that far.

That sounds like a fair hypothesis. People who are willing to "get on their bike" to find work are going to be in a better situation than those who expect a job on their doorstep. I moved south 25 years ago and have lived in several areas. In that time I have been unemployed for a total of about 5 months and the longest single period was 3 months.

It's not that people in the SE don't lose their jobs - businesses downsizing or closing happen regularly - but the economy is healthy enough that it is usually easy to find a new (and often better) job. If you can be confident of finding a new job within a few weeks you don't really fear unemployment.

The national unemployment rate may be 5.5% but that covers a lot of regional variability. The most recent Parliamentary report on unemployment by constituency (see: http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7738/CBP-7738.pdf) shows that many parts of the South and SE outside of London have rates under 1%. At that level you are really left with the unemployable so anyone capable of dressing themselves and turning up on time should have no problem finding a job.

DevilsAdvocate1

Doshwaster wrote: »

The national unemployment rate may be 5.5% but that covers a lot of regional variability. The most recent Parliamentary report on unemployment by constituency (see: http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7738/CBP-7738.pdf) shows that many parts of the South and SE outside of London have rates under 1%. At that level you are really left with the unemployable so anyone capable of dressing themselves and turning up on time should have no problem finding a job.

Rubbish. If someone is so incapable of work as to be unemployed they'd be on a different benefit such as ESA.

DevilsAdvocate1

Doshwaster wrote: »

You may not want freedom of movement for yourself or your family but why do you think that I, as a UK passport holder, should lose my EU Treaty rights?

Why are you so special? I'm interested in the long term interests or our country as a whole. And I don't believe this mantra of unlimited migration only being good.

Doshwaster

DevilsAdvocate1 wrote: »

Why are you so special? I'm interested in the long term interests or our country as a whole. And I don't believe this mantra of unlimited migration only being good.

I am not special but I don't see why I should have fewer rights to live and work across Europe than someone with an Irish passport. The people who think themselves "special" are the Leavers who think that they are somehow better than johnny foreigner.

Where do you get the idea we have "unlimited migration" from? You try turning up in the UK without a job, somewhere to live and with no money and see how far you get. Despite the myths you won't be given a council house and enough money to live on.