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On-grid domestic battery storage

edited 30 November -1 at 12:00AM in Green & Ethical MoneySaving
1.9K replies 201.3K views
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  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    Aussie Environment and Energy Minister 'bigs up' domestic storage as the economics start to make sense (in Aus, not yet over here).

    Home storage sales rocket as Australia moves towards standardisation
    Australia’s energy and environment minister has hailed the country’s accelerating residential energy storage sales as a report has emerged from Chief Scientist Dr Alan Finkel which says the “financial equation is straightforward” for adding batteries to home PV systems.

    Finkel’s office produced reports during 2017 which advised the government on the power market, opportunities and challenges for renewables and decarbonisation and the role of clean energy technologies in boosting the resiliency of energy networks across Australia. At the tail end of the year, he also published a report on the “transformative role” of energy storage.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    Sonnen continue to do their thing, more batts being shifted all the time.

    Sonnen hits almost €10 million in PV storage sales in June
    In June, Sonnen saw sales increase to almost €10 million. In the first half of the year, an increase 50% was seen compared to the same period last year, said the Allgäu provider of PV home storage systems on Friday.

    Worldwide, 1,500 solar batteries have been delivered, thus setting a new sales record. Around 75% were supplied to the DACH region, which includes Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

    Sonnen attributes several reasons for the sales record, including a general positive trend in the PV home storage market; payoff from information gleaned from the electricity services it provides; and an expansion of its specialist partner network in Germany.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • edited 18 July 2018 at 8:33AM
    JKenHJKenH Forumite
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    edited 18 July 2018 at 8:33AM
    I am a recent convert to solar and finding my way at the moment. I have gone for one of the Moixa 3kwh battery systems which gives an effective capacity of 2.4kwh. At the moment the system harvests energy from excess solar production and stores for release at a maximum rate of 450w. It should also enable me to top up the battery from Economy 7 overnight but at the moment it does not appear to be set up for that so some tweaking required.

    However I thought it might be interesting to show how the battery supplements the grid supply when solar is falling short - see Dropbox link below.* There is obviously scope for a bigger battery in the summer but Moixa do not offer this.

    *Unfortunately as a new user I cannot post a link but when permission is granted I will do a follow up post.

    In the meantime if anyone has any ideas how I might get the link on here- maybe I could forward it - please shout out.
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, Nissan Leaf (plus some ICEs:) )
  • pile-o-stonepile-o-stone Forumite
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    I don't know if this has already been reported/discussed on here (apologies if it has - I'm not a regular on MSE), but Power Vault has released V3 with far larger storage capacities, from 4.1kWh to 20.5 kWh :

    https://www.powervault.co.uk/

    With a 20kWh installation, large solar array and economy 7, I can see a family home being completely off grid for peak electricity.
    5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
    Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 300L thermal store.
    Vegan household with 100% composted food waste
    Mini orchard planted and vegetable allotment created.
  • pinnkspinnks Forumite
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    Hi JKenH.

    Tell us more about the battery system. I have just googled them and can't tell much about the proposal from their website. Is the offering cost effective? how does the system divert power to the battery and is it from the AC or DC side? How about using it if it supplies at max 450W and so on...:beer:
    Wiltshire - 5.25kWp
    3.5kWp: 14 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 4000TL, WSW 40 degrees, June 2013
    1.75kWp: 7 x Phono Solar 250 Onyx, Sunny Boy 1600TL, SSE 45 degrees, March 2014
  • Important update! We have recently reviewed and updated our Forum Rules and FAQs. Please take the time to familiarise yourself with the latest version.
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
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    Hard to explain this post, but I found it interesting just to add to the memory banks and knowledge.

    It's an explanation/advert from an American site, but gives a good explanation for the higher cost of lithium batts v's lead acids. It's all about large lithium batts that can be used as a straight replacement for LA's, and each contain a BMS.

    I found it interesting as the off-grid market is quite large and anything that ramps up production will also help reduce costs.

    I also found the explanation of the 5,000 cycle life (80% DoD) interesting as the batts then retain an 80% capacity. If you oversized such a batt purchase by that 20% figure then even after 5,000 cycles they would still be fine, plus they may have lasted better since the batts would have seen a lower DoD over the years (due to greater initial capacity).

    You tube video

    Link to US site, simply for background reading.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • edited 26 July 2018 at 9:31AM
    ZarchZarch Forumite
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    edited 26 July 2018 at 9:31AM
    Details here on the Moxia battery that has been mentioned previously. Hope this link works......

    https://gallery.mailchimp.com/067871640b76011dc4ccd4a89/files/d2b59dd7-cbb7-43ac-8b6d-b6fd4f3bf7a7/Moixa_Smart_Battery_Fact_Sheet.pdf?utm_source=All+leads+in+%282018%29&utm_campaign=c099f68f6a-AUTOMATION__1&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d70d97b587-c099f68f6a-427941229

    2 kWh Battery - £2,950
    3 kWh Battery - £3,450

    Prices include VAT and installation.

    Even if you used all the 3kWh each and every day (instead of paying 13p per unit), that's only £165 per year so even with energy price increases you're looking at 12 years payback.

    If that adds up?

    Not fully sure how this GridShare will work though?
    Unique to Moixa is GridShare

    GridShare is a free opt in platform service for all our customers. The bigger picture for Moixa is to aggregate stored energy to aid Grid services by charging batteries when demand is low and discharging when demand is high. We do this through a software platform.

    What does this mean for you?
    For the first 3 years we offer an annual payment of £50, by that time there will be a higher volume of domestic batteries to offer a profit share scheme. As a member Moixa Smart Battery

    We understand that energy storage is a relatively new and often confusing industry, with lots of conflicting information available online. We!!!8217;ve put together this document to cover the most Frequently Asked Questions and to help you understand exactly what to expect from our Smart Battery. We also give a lifetime battery warranty, so essentially you are paying just once.

    At Moixa we see GridShare as an obvious choice to reduce your return on investment payback and help the storage revolution.
    17 x 300W panels (5.1kWh) on a 3.68kWh SolarEdge system in Sunny Sheffield.
    4.8kWh Pylontech battery storage system with Lux AC controller
    Creator of the Energy Stats UK website and @energystatsuk Twitter Feed
  • orreryorrery Forumite
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    Zarch wrote: »
    If that adds up?


    Yes, that is the problem. It is really difficult to work out anything with solar as it depends on a raft of assumptions. I tried to work out the benefits of economy 7 with a spreadsheet and the assumptions can be altered to show anything you want.


    I've tried assuming that I could store everything I generate (I can't) and that I could substitute all my peak rate for E7 including charging my electric car. Even taken together the payback doesn't work.


    To make this viable, you'd need very advantageous tariffs which we just don't see at the moment.
    4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TL, SolarImmersion
    Location: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch
    Nissan Leaf, TADO Central Heating control
  • JKenHJKenH Forumite
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    pinnks wrote: »
    Hi JKenH.

    Tell us more about the battery system. I have just googled them and can't tell much about the proposal from their website. Is the offering cost effective? how does the system divert power to the battery and is it from the AC or DC side? How about using it if it supplies at max 450W and so on...:beer:


    Finally, I have the ok to post links so here is an example of the Moixa Dashboard which shows instantaneous energy flows

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa7vqfghehkrnsp/IMG_0434.jpg?dl=0

    In addition to this Moixa's Dashboard also displays graphs showing the daily energy inflow and outflow.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ay8zfwkm4ubbaju/Photo%2015-07-2018%2C%2022%2027%2057.jpg?dl=0

    You will see how the battery can kick in during the day to supplement the solar and reduce grid consumption. The battery can then recharge. The majority of the battery usage is saved for the evening. At the moment we have family camping out with us long term so our consumption is above normal but the battery does take us through until about 2am when our cheap Economy7 is available.

    In theory the battery can be recharged overnight from Economy7 but at the moment it is not set up for this. I have raised this with Moixa who have commented as follows.

    “In terms of charging your battery during the cheap rate Economy 7 hours, we believe it is not necessary to do this at the current time.

    At this time of year, the solar panels are producing plenty of power to charge the battery to full, which can then discharge during the evening. It is not recommended to charge the battery during the hours you have suggested as it would lead to a fully charged battery at sunrise. This would mean the battery would be discharging during the day rather than charging from the solar panels. Although charging from the grid during Economy 7 hours is cheaper than other hours, the missed charging power from the solar panels would negate any savings.

    In the winter when there is reduced sunlight and therefore reduced power from the solar panels, charging from the Economy 7 hours may be advisable. This is something we could look at later in the year.”
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, Nissan Leaf (plus some ICEs:) )
  • JKenHJKenH Forumite
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    Zarch wrote: »
    Details here on the Moxia battery that has been mentioned previously. Hope this link works......

    https://gallery.mailchimp.com/067871640b76011dc4ccd4a89/files/d2b59dd7-cbb7-43ac-8b6d-b6fd4f3bf7a7/Moixa_Smart_Battery_Fact_Sheet.pdf?utm_source=All+leads+in+%282018%29&utm_campaign=c099f68f6a-AUTOMATION__1&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d70d97b587-c099f68f6a-427941229

    2 kWh Battery - £2,950
    3 kWh Battery - £3,450

    Prices include VAT and installation.

    Even if you used all the 3kWh each and every day (instead of paying 13p per unit), that's only £165 per year so even with energy price increases you're looking at 12 years payback.

    If that adds up?

    Not fully sure how this GridShare will work though?

    Below is a copy of a comment on a separate thread that I made about Gridshare. I hope this helps.
    Under the Moixa Gridshare scheme the batteries are warranted for (I think) 25 years. When they fall to70% capacity they are replaced so expecting a couple of replacements. (In the short term I just don’t think batteries are economic. I did look at other battery systems which were cheaper per kWh of capacity but felt the Moixa offering was a bit different.) A 3 kWh battery (effective 2.4 kWh) capacity is only going to save about 35p a day say £100 pa if you manage to fill it every day. In theory you can refill the battery from cheap rate Economy7 (if like us you have it) so could save another 20p or so per day but this only takes the maximum rsaving to about £150 pa which is not a great return on the nominal £3k cost of the battery. However with Gridshare Moixa are aiming to achieve a critical mass of say 2000 batteries when they can sell electricity back to the grid to cover short term peaks. The rate per kWh may be similar to the earliest FiT payments and Moixa will share the profit made. Until that scheme is up and running Moixa are paying Gridshare partners £50pa.
    Northern Lincolnshire. 7.8 kWp system, (4.2 kw west facing panels , 3.6 kw east facing), Solis inverters, Solar IBoost water heater, Mitsubishi SRK35ZS-S and SRK20ZS-S Wall Mounted Inverter Heat Pumps, Nissan Leaf (plus some ICEs:) )
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